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Chia-Network / chia-blockchain

Chia blockchain python implementation (full node, farmer, harvester, timelord, and wallet)
Apache License 2.0
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[REQ] Farming pool support at protocol level #3479

Closed zjshen14 closed 3 years ago

zjshen14 commented 3 years ago

At the moment of creating this issue, the netspace is said to be over 1.7EiB according to the explorer. It's no longer friendly to solo family farmers given hundreds GiB or single digit TiB spared disk on their PC. This discourages normal people to participates into Chia network, and preventing it from being more decentralized.

Pooling would be a good option for small participants to get consistent incentive day-over-day. It would be helpful if there's farming pool support at the protocol level that meets the following goals:

  1. Farmers don't need to unveil the private key (or other credentials) to join a pool.
  2. Farmers don't need to re-plot disks to join a new pool, and they could switch the pools by unregistering the plots from one pool and registering them into another.
  3. It should be publicly verifiable for a farmer's share in the pool's space at the block time when the pool wins such a block.
sargonas commented 3 years ago

Pooling plans have already been announced in previous discussions, and devs have already stated they intend to target a May/June timeframe hopefully to roll it out

zjshen14 commented 3 years ago

@sargonas glad to hear that. would you please link the announcement or discussion thread?

FSys77 commented 3 years ago

It is a shame that there are still no non-Chinese farming pools.

The Chia devs should have taken care of a pooling protocol months ago, before the release of main net. Now small miners are fucked and can only watch how the big Chinese mining farms mine all the Chia.

Very disapointed in Chia :-(

diveinstructor commented 3 years ago

What do you think about the Chinese Chia "pool" solution like hpool.com? Executable posted here: https://github.com/hpool-dev/chia-miner/releases Without source code of course...

But according to chiaexplorer.com their address xch1f0ryxk6qn096hefcwrdwpuph2hm24w69jnzezhkfswk0z2jar7aq5zzpfj is the biggest earner, apparently representing 31% of the network space...

Thank you for your thoughts

-Oliver

FSys77 commented 3 years ago

What do you think about the Chinese Chia "pool" solution like hpool.com?

I am using hpool.com right now. I am very well aware that its a bad idea to give them (possibly?) access to the mnemonic (private key), but it is better than nothing. Solo farming is dead for 99% of us.

At least I am making some Chia right now.

I minimized the risk by immediately withdrawing funds from hpool.com to an offline wallet. In the worst case I have to re-plot my files if hpool.com decides to go rogue, but I'm not losing any Chia.

This is really a sad situation where 99% of all small Chia farmers are in now. Chia developers should have addressed this problem much, much earlier.

diveinstructor commented 3 years ago

What do you think about the Chinese Chia "pool" solution like hpool.com?

I am using hpool.com right now.

Where you able to actually withdraw any of the Chia you earned there?

I started running hpool.com on a separate clean system about a week ago and then the withdraw limit was 0.1 XCH. When I just reached this amount the limit was miraculously increased to 0.2 XCH. I will reach this soon too, and I will be curious if I can transfer my XCH to the Chain.io wallet...

Any experience appreciated.

Cheers Oliver

FSys77 commented 3 years ago

Where you able to actually withdraw any of the Chia you earned there?

Yes, but its a real rip off. My earnings are only about 50% of what I should earn according to chiacalculator.com

hpool only gets away with this because they are the only operational pool at the moment. Again: Shame on the Chia devs for this fucked up situation!

isis59 commented 3 years ago

What's your average reward ? How many plots do u have and how long does it take to get your first 0.1 chia? Thanks for your answer

diveinstructor commented 3 years ago

In hpool you need to farm 0.2 XCH to be able to withdraw anything.

zjshen14 commented 3 years ago

My 2c: it’s not necessary to judge a pool based on Chinese or non-Chinese. My major concern is a single pool is responsible for 30-40% total space, and there’s no one else even close. This put the network in a single failure point risk. This is the essential problem to fix.

You may have to admit hpool is the probably best option for smaller players who want get predictable revenue stream to payback there investment. Hpool may not be perfect, or far from being trustworthy, but they solved smaller players pain points to some extent.

Hope the core dev move faster and other community folks come up high quality pooling solutions, making the ecosystem more healthy

diveinstructor commented 3 years ago

My 2c: it’s not necessary to judge a pool based on Chinese or non-Chinese.

Hey, my concerns are not related to the nationality of hpool. If it is a scam than it virtually does not matter where it is located. My question was if there are any real world people who were actually been able to withdraw any XCH from hpool. Their minimum withdraw was raised recently to 0.2 XCH, an amount that is not easy to reach for "small" farmer. Besides this they seemingly keep manipulating the timing of the "recognition" of farming results and the release of the actual withdraw.

This could be a fraud scheme as any small farmers might abandon their farmed XCH at the pool after being unable to produce results within several weeks. As I cannot read most of the comments on the project I am not sure what is going on. I guess most of the farmers who are using Hpool are from China.

What do you think?

zjshen14 commented 3 years ago

Their minimum withdraw was raised recently to 0.2 XCH, an amount that is not easy to reach for "small" farmer.

Agree. Like I mentioned above, it's not perfect, actually far away. However, the other side of the coin that it's already ~10X more predictable than luckily mining a block to win 2 XCH. More predictable revenue stream but at the risk of losing some (or all) vs less predictable revenue stream but no risk -- this is a tradeoff many smaller farmers have to make before a better solution. And a better solution is what this thread is aiming for.

This could be a fraud scheme as any small farmers might abandon their farmed XCH at the pool after being unable to produce results within several weeks. As I cannot read most of the comments on the project I am not sure what is going on. I guess most of the farmers who are using Hpool are from China.

These are all good points. My recommendation is to give them feedback to improve, similar to what we did here. Meanwhile, if core dev and community could make solid progress on launching other better pooling service, they will be pressured to improve.

Flame36 commented 3 years ago

so apparently pool plotting support is getting added the 17th? source:https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/1390407484179763202

zjshen14 commented 3 years ago

@Flame36, I saw it too.

But I didn't find out pool related code commits recently: https://github.com/Chia-Network/chia-blockchain/commits/main. Maybe core team is developing it somewhere else or currently in confidential way.

Does anyone find a thread to track the progress?

DuDlikSPB commented 3 years ago

@Flame36, I saw it too.

But I didn't find out pool related code commits recently: https://github.com/Chia-Network/chia-blockchain/commits/main. Maybe core team is developing it somewhere else or currently in confidential way.

Does anyone find a thread to track the progress?

Same question, zero information about pool code

Flame36 commented 3 years ago

@Flame36, I saw it too.

But I didn't find out pool related code commits recently: https://github.com/Chia-Network/chia-blockchain/commits/main. Maybe core team is developing it somewhere else or currently in confidential way.

Does anyone find a thread to track the progress?

maybe its so people dont get an advantage by using the code and starting to plot before its released for everyone? idk just speculating