Bow PVP Mechanic

[Xavter]

So I was playing with bows on civtest and I found that as of right now they're already very powerful. Bows already instant kill when fully drawn on players with no armor, and instant kill sometimes when you have full gold armor. In vanilla diamond armor, a bow can take around half the hearts of player in one hit; however, in prot 4 it only does 1-2 hearts of damage. Right now proj prot 4 does the same amount of protection for arrows, more or less.

This leads me to believe that prot armor only needs to take the same damage as vanilla armor currently does. Either I can try making a PR for next weekend or someone can change it before then. This would create a dual class PVP system where archers would trump sword users at a distance and sword users could absolutely eliminate players at close range.

Additionally, we could very slightly nerf bows(if the current damage multiplier we have on bows is 2, then we'd change it to 1.75 or 1.5) in exchange for slowness on prot 4. In my eyes, it should take 3 arrows if someone isn't wearing proj prot to kill them, but right now in vanilla diamond armor it takes about 2.

Both of these changes seem pretty simple code wise but it would change a lot in terms of PVP mechanics, so let me know what you guys think.

[ttk2]

so up heart damage and lower dura damage for bots?

On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 6:03 AM Xavter notifications@github.com wrote:

So I was playing with bows on civtest and I found that as of right now they're already very powerful. Bows already instant kill when fully drawn on players with no armor, and instant kill sometimes when you have full gold armor. In vanilla diamond armor, a bow can take around half the hearts of player in one hit; however, in prot 4 it only does 1-2 hearts of damage. Right now proj prot 4 does the same amount of protection for arrows, more or less.

This leads me to believe that prot armor only needs to take the same damage as vanilla armor currently does. Either I can try making a PR for next weekend or someone can change it before then. This would create a dual class PVP system where archers would trump sword users at a distance and sword users could absolutely eliminate players at close range.

Additionally, we could introduce a mechanic that would have bows become very slightly nerfed(if the current damage multiplier we have on bows is 2, then we'd change it to 1.75 or 1.5) in exchange for slowness on prot 4. In my eyes, it should take 3 arrows if someone isn't wearing proj prot to kill them, but right now in vanilla diamond armor it takes about 2.

Both of these changes seem pretty simple code wise but it would change a lot in terms of PVP mechanics, so let me know what you guys think.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Civcraft/Humbug/issues/16.

[ttk2]

bows*

On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 3:15 PM justin kilpatrick kilpatrickjustin@gmail.com wrote:

so up heart damage and lower dura damage for bots?

On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 6:03 AM Xavter notifications@github.com wrote:

So I was playing with bows on civtest and I found that as of right now they're already very powerful. Bows already instant kill when fully drawn on players with no armor, and instant kill sometimes when you have full gold armor. In vanilla diamond armor, a bow can take around half the hearts of player in one hit; however, in prot 4 it only does 1-2 hearts of damage. Right now proj prot 4 does the same amount of protection for arrows, more or less.

This leads me to believe that prot armor only needs to take the same damage as vanilla armor currently does. Either I can try making a PR for next weekend or someone can change it before then. This would create a dual class PVP system where archers would trump sword users at a distance and sword users could absolutely eliminate players at close range.

Additionally, we could introduce a mechanic that would have bows become very slightly nerfed(if the current damage multiplier we have on bows is 2, then we'd change it to 1.75 or 1.5) in exchange for slowness on prot 4. In my eyes, it should take 3 arrows if someone isn't wearing proj prot to kill them, but right now in vanilla diamond armor it takes about 2.

Both of these changes seem pretty simple code wise but it would change a lot in terms of PVP mechanics, so let me know what you guys think.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Civcraft/Humbug/issues/16.

[Xavter]

Easier, just include in the prot buff code a damage multiplier for arrows so they do the same damage as they as they do on vanilla armor. That way we'd not need to buff prof prot armor.

[Xavter]

Anyone want to check out the new commit?

[ttk2]

its in the changelog for today. Not sure that its the best way to go about our goal but that's to be discussed

On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 5:12 AM Xavter notifications@github.com wrote:

Anyone want to check out the new commit?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Civcraft/Humbug/issues/16#issuecomment-78453406.

[TealNerd]

If bows do 5 hearts of damage per hit there won't be two classes there will be archers and more archers and thats it, nothing else will be viable

[ttk2]

what do they do now?

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:42 PM biggestnerd notifications@github.com wrote:

If bows do 5 hearts of damage per hit there won't be two classes there will be archers and more archers and thats it, nothing else will be viable

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Civcraft/Humbug/issues/16#issuecomment-93630286.

[TealNerd]

Like 1-2 hearts. That's OP as shit already because if you can't get into cover you're fucked and if you lag you're fucked and basically it's really easy to die. Bows also do a lot more durability damage than swords

[Xavter]

I don't think the way to reach a 2 class system is by buffing bow damage further or making proj prot tankier, but rather by making it better to wear proj prot in one scenario and normal prot in another scenario. I.e. make archers more lethal from a distance while making them useless at close range. Right now it's easier to pearl to someone with a sword and jitterclick them to death than it is to use a bow at a distance. When someone is wearing full proj prot, their bows should be able to add a slowness effect. Additionally, the bow buff we have on now should be disabled unless proj prot is being worn. This adds a lot of inherent advantages for archers who wear proj prot when they have a safe distance between them and the attacker, while also making them very vulnerable when someone gets close to them with a sword. Obviously we would need to test/tweak the exact mechanics quite a bit, but I think this is the best solution for a two class combat system.

[Xavter]

1-2 hearts isn't a ton when I have regen going and health pots. I can rush an archer with a god bow right now very easily with no cover, if he has knockback then it's quite a bit harder but still doable. A god bow is no substitute for a god sword in almost every single combat scenario.

Durability damage needs to be turned down a lot for bows, too. It needs to be comparable dura damage to what a sword does.

And lag/ping will always be a factor in competitive gameplay like this, it shouldn't be used as an argument that combat mechanics are broken/not broken unless you think we should make combat slower to compensate for differences in latency.

Blegh, if you want to continue this discussion bring it up on the changelog tomorrow, this is a throwaway git account so it's hard for me to give quick responses to things here.

[ttk2]

ok then, I will bring it up there, I still want to make a multiclass system, I don't think either of us knows enough about BergyPVP to figure out how it could factor into doing this.

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 9:33 AM Xavter notifications@github.com wrote:

1-2 hearts isn't a ton when I have regen going and health pots. I can rush an archer with a god bow right now very easily with no cover, if he has knockback then it's quite a bit harder but still doable. A god bow is no substitute for a god sword in almost every single combat scenario.

Durability damage needs to be turned down a lot for bows, too. It needs to be comparable dura damage to what a sword does.

And lag/ping will always be a factor in competitive gameplay like this, it shouldn't be used as an argument that combat mechanics are broken/not broken unless you think we should make combat slower to compensate for differences in latency.

Blegh, if you want to continue this discussion bring it up on the changelog tomorrow, this is a throwaway git account so it's hard for me to give quick responses to things here.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Civcraft/Humbug/issues/16#issuecomment-100497385.