Open 0msa opened 3 months ago
dedestus
commented
3 months ago in theory there will be more players participating and thus more title spots will be available. if the changes work out well we will possibly get like 400-500 gladiator spots similar to wotlk classic s5 or even more. tho using previous seasons as an example is not really meaningful because titles were spread over multiple brackets.
diamondsprings
commented
3 months ago definitely in favor of this, and if it has been talked about internally previously it should be revisited given the new end of season reward adjustments. probably was worth taking a look at when going from teams to individual spots as well.
while as previously mentioned it's not super simple to assume the exact behavior in numbers of total spots and spots occupied by alts with these changes, however, i do think it's fair to say it will have a bigger impact than before given that if nothing else these players did not play every bracket and thus did not impact every spot with rewards and now they will be affecting 100% of them because all rewards are in the one bracket.
no downside for anyone, great upside for a good chunk of players, and has had positive effects on retail where it was implemented already.
tmpnm099
commented
3 months ago I made a post similar to this mid wotlk.
I know they like to keep it tidy here by closing duplicate posts. In which case it would be preferable if you closed the one I made (https://github.com/JamminL/cata-classic-bugs/issues/771) as this one is more relevant to the situation we are in now with 2v2 and 5v5 rewards going away with Cataclysm, and as a result the importance of addressing this issue has grown.
SimonBpvp
commented
3 months ago Great idea. Unfortunately this is undermined a lot by the 4k weekly catchup. The new conquest cap of additive 4k per week (way too high) means that a good player can get rank 1, make a new account buy a new subscription and a boost, and repeat. This will be a problem that nobody forsaw and it's why the original cata system would have worked better the way it was (because these guys would have had to cap weekly from the start). But this suggestion will still help a little bit.
0msa
commented
3 months ago Thanks for bringing up the 4k weekly catchup change, which makes this suggested change to end of season reward calculations even more important. As @SimonBpvp mentioned, having a catchup system (and lower PVE gear requirement) makes it significantly easier to gear and play alt characters at a competitive level. A large barrier in Wotlk/TBC for players to have multiple alts was the gearing process, and now that has largely been removed (for the better).
Your point assumes that these players occupying multiple slots with alt characters have malicious intent to take away end of season rewards from other people. Though some players might have this goal, I have spoken to multiple players with 2+ characters in r1 spots who do not, and are in favor of a retail style end of season calculation. Of course, there will always be ways to circumvent this new system (by creating new battle.net accounts, as you mentioned), but the more barriers to that the better.
Great idea. Unfortunately this is undermined a lot by the 4k weekly catchup. The new conquest cap of additive 4k per week (way too high) means that a good player can get rank 1, make a new account buy a new subscription and a boost, and repeat. This will be a problem that nobody forsaw and it's why the original cata system would have worked better the way it was (because these guys would have had to cap weekly from the start). But this suggestion will still help a little bit.
tmpnm099
commented
3 months ago To further add: The spots for r1 (0.1%) and gladiator (0.5%) are largely generated by lower rating activity and capping participation.
To my understanding, with the changes we'll have a static cap and gain the same amount of conquest per win regardless of bracket.
This is problematic because:
To my understanding there's no incentive to cap in 3v3 or for lower rating players to choose 3v3 specifically.
The spots available for gladiator+ is getting watered down drastically as a result of the recent changes to the rewards in Cataclysm for the reasons above, and alts occupying spots will have a much larger impact than it already had.
Side note: On retail, its common practise for even non-pvpers to farm out 80 wins in 3v3 for "Vicious Saddle", which is an item used to buy the seasonal mounts, because it's designed to incentivize 3v3:
To earn a mount or Vicious Saddle you will need 2400 points. 2v2 wins give 10 points - 240 wins required. 3v3 wins give 30 points - 80 wins required. RBG wins give 60 points - 40 wins required.
SimonBpvp
commented
3 months ago Thanks for bringing up the 4k weekly catchup change, which makes this suggested change to end of season reward calculations even more important. As @SimonBpvp mentioned, having a catchup system (and lower PVE gear requirement) makes it significantly easier to gear and play alt characters at a competitive level. A large barrier in Wotlk/TBC for players to have multiple alts was the gearing process, and now that has largely been removed (for the better).
Your point assumes that these players occupying multiple slots with alt characters have malicious intent to take away end of season rewards from other people. Though some players might have this goal, I have spoken to multiple players with 2+ characters in r1 spots who do not, and are in favor of a retail style end of season calculation. Of course, there will always be ways to circumvent this new system (by creating new battle.net accounts, as you mentioned), but the more barriers to that the better.
I didn’t mean to imply malicious intent, only that some players will perceive their title to be more valuable the fewer people have it, which to be honest makes sense: reduced supply = increased rarity.
But definitely with the new conquest cap this suggestion is way more needed than it would have been under the old conquest cap system.
ManneN1
commented
2 months ago Fully agree with the suggestion.
In Cata Classic, it's also possible to buy infinite level boosts on the same account, in combination with the previously mentioned catch-up it's even easier for players to smurf and as a consequence soak up multiple title slots.
Note: They should also check the IP / MAC of accounts to be able to group together also different battle.net accounts playing from the same location. Not to catch piloters, but to just be able to group people who happen to have their accounts on multiple battle.nets, making the title distribution more fair.
Description
Blizzard should implement the retail system for end of season PVP awards in Cataclysm. In this system, rank cutoffs are extended by alt characters of the same battle.net account:
source
With the removal of Gladiator titles and rewards from the 2v2 and 5v5, there will be significantly fewer end of season title rewards available in Cataclysm Classic compared to TBC and Wotlk. In order to encourage more participation with more available end of season rewards, Blizzard should implement this cutoff calculation from retail.
For example, in the NA 3v3 bracket in Season 8, there were 17 rank one spots. 5 of these 17 spots (almost 30%) were taken by 2 players (one with 2 characters and one with 3). With the retail system, there would be 3 additional spots. Extending the availability would likely incentive more activity and create a more competitive end of season environment.
Blizzard has already moved away from fixed arena teams in Wotlk/Cata (which were originally removed in 5.4.0 in MOP) and moved to percentage based cutoffs for Rank One rewards (which were originally implemented in WOD. Like these changes, implementing the retail style cutoff (which extends rewards by characters on the same battle.net account), would also improve the arena environment in Cataclysm Classic.