Copper Tubing, Copper Wire recipes don't involve the use of Copper

[Griffinhart]

I'm not a metalworker, but it seems odd to me that Copper Tubing can be made with approximately every single metal in CDDA except actual copper.

Copper Wire simply involves 40 volume's worth of wire (i.e. 20 units) and some duct tape.

Also, not sure intentional or not, but bullet recipes that use Copper Tubing don't allow for Copper as an alternative, while producing Copper when disassembled using the Kinetic Bullet Puller.

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[Griffinhart]

I was about to attempt a PR, but I'm seeing some numerical discrepancies.

1 stack (20 bullets) of reloaded 7.62x51mm costs 3 Copper Tubing and 120 metal (any of lead, solder, bismuth, silver, tin, or gold).

Disassembling 1 stack (20 bullets) of 7.62x51mm returns 120 Lead and 120 Copper (technically, 6 each per bullet).

So it seems like it should cost 120 Lead + Copper to assemble 1 stack of reloaded 7.62x51mm.

However, Copper Tubing costs 70 metal (any of lead, solder, bismuth, silver, tin, or gold) to make, meaning that if I were to add 70 Copper as a component choice for Copper Tubing, there'd be a net loss of 90 Copper per stack of 7.62x51mm being made (3 Copper Tubings x 70 Copper per Tubing = 210, but disassembling a stack of 20 rounds returns only 120; 210 - 120 = 90 Copper lost to the ether).

So there are a couple of things I could do:

• The loss is intentional. Some Copper is irretrievably consumed during crafting; add 70 Copper as a component to Copper Tubing and optionally add 70 * (# of Copper Tubings) as a component choice to bullet recipes that involve Copper Tubing.
• The loss is a bug. The disassembly recipe should be returning a greater amount of Copper. (Note that, in the case of 7.62x51mm, 210 doesn't evenly divide into 20, so there'd still be some loss.)
• The loss is a bug. Bullets that use Copper Tubing should cost an equal amount of Copper as they do other metals (e.g. 120 Copper for 7.62x51mm, which has 120 Lead as a cost). Reduce Copper Tubing costs for bullets and/or metal costs for Copper Tubing so that everything matches (most likely this will mean just reducing Copper Tubing's metal cost to 40 from 70, but I've only really looked at the Copper Tubing cost for 7.62x51mm; other bullets may have different Tubing costs).
• As previous possibility, but increase instead of decrease (e.g. increase 7.62x51mm's metal cost to 210 from 120).
• Different costs for different components: you can make Copper Tubing with non-Copper metals, but that costs more - you can make Copper Tubing with 40 Copper (or whatever value best matches with all those bullets that use Copper Tubing), or 70 of any other metal.

[Griffinhart]

Ammo	Count	metal	Copper Tubing	incendiary	Other
reloaded_45_jhp	25	400	3
reloaded_454_Casull	10	400	2
reloaded_500_Magnum	10	450	2
reloaded_762_m43	80	400	4
reloaded_762_m87	80	400	4
reloaded_223	40	80	2		or 40 .22 casing
reloaded_556	40	80	4		or 40 .22 casing
reloaded_556_incendiary	30		3	60	or 30 .22 casing
reloaded_270	20	100	3
reloaded_3006	10	80	3
reloaded_50_incendiary	10	200	3	300
reloaded_50ss	10		3
reloaded_50bmg	10	380	3
reloaded_3006_incendiary	5		3	40
reloaded_308	20	120	3
reloaded_762_51	20	120	3
reloaded_762_51_incendiary	10		1	60
shot_scrap	25		4		or 400 Copper
blun_shot	1		1		or 16 Copper
8mm_bootleg_jsp	25	75	5	100
reloaded_9mmfmj	50	150	2
reloaded_38_fmj	50	200	2
reloaded_40fmj	50	250	2
reloaded_44fmj	50	400	3
reloaded_300_winmag	10	80	3
reloaded_762_54R	20	60	3
reloaded_700nx	30	420	4

Conclusion: I have no idea how much Copper should go into a Copper Tubing. It might be as low as 16 Copper per Tubing (blun_shot) or as high as 105 (reloaded_700nx).

[Zireael07]

Love the table, as for intended values, I'd wait for the devs.

[Griffinhart]

I took a look at data/json/bullet_pulling.json, and in every case where a pulled bullet returns Copper, it returns Copper at a 1:1 ratio with Lead (or Incendiary, in the case of 5.56, 7.62x51mm, and .30-06 incendiary rounds).

So, on the one hand, with bullet recipes, Copper Tubing costs fluctuate wildly. On the other hand, with the disassembly recipes, Copper matches Lead/Incendiary 1:1.

So it seems to me that the Lead/Incendiary returns listed in bullet_pulling.json are "canonical" and "correct" (they seem to match correctly with the crafting recipes), and Copper/Copper Tubing costs should be altered to match 1:1 with those.

[jokermatt999]

Blunderbuss shots are mine. Feel free to tweak them as necessary. It looks like they are on the low side, right? That's because I intended then to be crafted individually, so it'd be wasteful to use a copper tube, but possible for convenience. Don't take their values into account when trying to determine a baseline, and feel free to alter as you see fit.

(I'm generally pretty lax about most of my PRs being adjusted. I run quick and dirty numbers, so if someone goes more in depth, I'd defer to them.)

[Griffinhart]

Man, the more I stare at this, the more problems I see.

For example: reloaded_45jhp is really resource-expensive. It costs twice as much metal and two more Copper Tubes than reloaded_44fmj; and nearly three times as much metal as reloaded_762_51 (16 metal per reloaded_45jhp vs. 6 metal per reloaded_762_51).

Meanwhile, reloaded_223 is the cheapest, metal-wise, at 2 metal per bullet - compare reloaded_9mmfmj @ 3 metal per bullet. reloaded_9mmfmj at least as a Copper Tubing advantage (25 bullets:1 Copper Tubing for reloaded_9mmfmj; 20:1 for reloaded_223).

I should probably rename this issue to "bullet recipes need an audit" or something...

[KA101]

OK. My limited understanding is that copper tubing is needed for casings/jacketing, and copper is pulled from jacketed bullets. However, forming a new jacket is much harder to do with loose copper than with the tubing, since it's not already in rough form.

Therefore FMJ and other jacketed rounds do have (more) discrepancies, since they're tougher to make. Some amount of that is intentional, but probably not all of it.

The scrap and blunder shots are just whatever metal is available, more/less.

[Oskar636]

Build 5900 windows 64bit console. Crafting recipe for copper tubing and copper wire is only available with copper as a metal. For the bullets part, I guess they got reworked since copper tubings aren't a component in a single crafting recipe in the game.

[codemime]

@Oskar636 Thanks for your help.