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CleverRaven / Cataclysm-DDA

Cataclysm - Dark Days Ahead. A turn-based survival game set in a post-apocalyptic world.
http://cataclysmdda.org
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Give hacksaws "charges" to represent blades wearing out. #14788

Closed kevingranade closed 7 years ago

kevingranade commented 8 years ago

Hacksaws are currently indestructible, when in fact they become dulled quite rapidly when used for certain things. This could be represented by giving the tool "ammunition" of the type "hacksaw blade". Handling it nicely would involve overriding the reload code to only swap blades as they wear out instead of adding their charges together, but surprise, that's how batteries should work anyway, so that would kill two birds with one stone. Possible further extensions could be to add different blades with different quality levels, but other than different durabilities that's probably uncalled for since I don't think the time spent is a major factor.

Coolthulhu commented 8 years ago

Crafting them would combine the worst parts of having to replace them and lack of limitations on usage. Instead, it would be better to either void the mechanic at some point by adding a rare infinite saw (possibly vehicle mounted) or not allow any crafting and make saws a truly limited resource.

That is, unless the blade replacement mechanic was truly automatic and not as manual as current reloading. Then we could have makeshift blades with a very limited number of charges. Producing those could double the time of crafting anything without real tools.

TheRafters commented 8 years ago

I don't think manufacturing blades should be a thing. The information I can find indicates that they are made of special alloys and undergo hours of heat treatment. And coolthulhu makes valid points. If makeshift blades were a thing, they wouldn't be made of the proper material and wouldn't last long.

chaosvolt commented 8 years ago

That is, unless the blade replacement mechanic was truly automatic and not as manual as current reloading. Then we could have makeshift blades with a very limited number of charges. Producing those could double the time of crafting anything without real tools.

This seems sensible, and might be good if we assume that the right sort of hardening can't easily be replicated using survivor smithing, this allows them to be craftable while still be less ideal alternative.

kevingranade commented 8 years ago

On Jan 11, 2016 11:24 AM, "Malkeus" notifications@github.com wrote:

I guess it comes down to how much of a pita it is going to be to swap blades. If we need to change them out every half dozen car part removals, dropping out of the car building screen and reloading the tool will just add tedious repetition. If it's handled transparently via a pool of blades in the inventory, I think that would be ok.

I suggested auto reload during long actions for batteries, the same applies here.

vache commented 8 years ago

I think it should be possible to manufacture your own blades at some point, but that goes back to a lot of advanced manufacturing that people have been wanting. It's all a part of the power curve, initial tools should be makeshift and garbage that wear out quickly, then the player should be able to scavenge real purpose-made tools of higher quality that wear out over a longer time, then the player should find the ability to essentially produce things at near infinite quantity (provided resources) and almost industrial quality. The idea is that the player always has a certain set of needs, and the game should provide ways to satisfy them at certain levels of efficiency, and as the player has more and more wants dealt with efficiently, it opens up more time to deal with other things.

An NPC run machine shop makes sense for providing that upper tier satisfaction of needs, and it could end up being a system where you provide fuel and raw materials, you make an order to an NPC, and then they provide you with a time that you can come pick your order up.

TheRafters commented 8 years ago

I think this issue should be represented in the forums like the last derail...so, how about those hacksaw blades? On Jan 11, 2016 4:14 PM, "vache" notifications@github.com wrote:

I think it should be possible to manufacture your own blades at some point, but that goes back to a lot of advanced manufacturing that people have been wanting. It's all a part of the power curve, initial tools should be makeshift and garbage that wear out quickly, then the player should be able to scavenge real purpose-made tools of higher quality that wear out over a longer time, then the player should find the ability to essentially produce things at near infinite quantity (provided resources) and almost industrial quality. The idea is that the player always has a certain set of needs, and the game should provide ways to satisfy them at certain levels of efficiency, and as the player has more and more wants dealt with efficiently, it opens up more time to deal with other things.

An NPC run machine shop makes sense for providing that upper tier satisfaction of needs, and it could end up being a system where you provide fuel and raw materials, you make an order to an NPC, and then they provide you with a time that you can come pick your order up.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/14788#issuecomment-170708187 .

kevingranade commented 8 years ago

Focusing on the replaceable blades, the two tricky parts are the replacement infrastructure (which is being worked on for batteries) and deciding how long a hacksaw blade will last for various tasks. A major secondary issue is replacing or augmenting hacksaw use with other tools (wrench or socket set is the primary candidate).

TheRafters commented 8 years ago

The length of time a blade lasts is heavily dependent on the hardness of the material you are cutting. High grade bolts will eat your blade in short order, frames tend to be easier to cut than the bolts holding them together. Body work might as well be paper. Assigning a hardness value to materials might be a good starting point. I'll look at it when I get home and share my thoughts. On Jan 11, 2016 5:09 PM, "Kevin Granade" notifications@github.com wrote:

Focusing on the replaceable blades, the two tricky parts are the replacement infrastructure (which is being worked on for batteries) and deciding how long a hacksaw blade will last for various tasks. A major secondary issue is replacing or augmenting hacksaw use with other tools (wrench or socket set is the primary candidate).

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/14788#issuecomment-170727529 .

illi-kun commented 7 years ago

This issue was closed as it appears inactive.

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