Issues with the new recoil

CleverRaven / Cataclysm-DDA

Cataclysm - Dark Days Ahead. A turn-based survival game set in a post-apocalyptic world.

http://cataclysmdda.org

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Issues with the new recoil #18488

Closed Coolthulhu closed 5 years ago

Coolthulhu commented 8 years ago

Merged experimentally since the new recoil wasn't broken, but it still needs a lot of polish:

[x] The recommended strength name is misleading - for example, the laser rifle doesn't benefit from strength at all
[ ] The strength requirement displayed seems to be approximate instead of exact
[ ] The strength cap is very low, strength above 10 doesn't do much for guns now
[ ] No way to preview or predict effects of gunmods without applying them
[ ] Bows and slings have no recoil, meaning you can aim once and then get all the headshots you need without aiming
[ ] The formula itself is confusing without reading the code, needs to be exposed more. Implementation details or not, hiding information that can be calculated by a determined player is a bad thing

Zilenan91 commented 8 years ago

I think most guns not needing a strength over 10 for optimum recoil control is fine because you don't need to be that strong to fire most guns in real life

mugling commented 8 years ago

The strength cap is very low, strength above 10 doesn't do much for guns now

This one isn't true. Look at the requirements for m249 or m60 which are STR >25

Coolthulhu commented 8 years ago

you don't need to be that strong to fire most guns in real life

It's not about "need", but "benefit at all". Having 100 strength doesn't help over having 10 strength when wielding AK-74, for example.

This one isn't true. Look at the requirements for m249 or m60 which are STR >25

Those are heavy machine guns you are unlikely to be using anyway. Cost of using those is huge (no short burst, only full auto), they require specific terrain and in general are too unwieldy to matter.

mugling commented 8 years ago

Window frames work quite well and can be viable tactic against a large group. Given we have MAX_SKILL 10 to balance around what is the intended value of MAX_STAT. How about 20?

mightyagrippa commented 8 years ago

Bows and slings have no recoil, meaning you can aim once and then get all the headshots you need without aiming

Not saying this isn't a problem, but this was the case for old recoil too. Same thing with laser weapons (possibly intended) and the pneumatic weapons (less probably intended).

mightyagrippa commented 8 years ago

For reference, some values under current system and chargen defaults:

9-10 STR: normal fit human
15 STR: peak physical condition for a normal human. Maximum available to a starting character without sacrificing other stats (15/8/8/8), also the result of the Prime Strength mutation.
20 STR: absolute maximum available to an unmutated starting character (20/4/4/4).
+8: highest static bonus available to STR without penalties or crossing threshold. Extremely Strong mutation + Large mutation + Strength CBM.
+13: highest static bonus available to STR with penalties and threshold. Insanely Strong mutation + Huge mutation + Strength CBM.
+20: active Hydraulic Muscles. Rip and tear!

DangerNoodle commented 8 years ago

Those are heavy machine guns you are unlikely to be using anyway. Cost of using those is huge (no short burst, only full auto), they require specific terrain and in general are too unwieldy to matter.

Light machine gun and medium machine gun, respectively. The M249 in particular has been used fired off the shoulder, and field manuals have described use of that weapon not only as a light machine gun, but as an automatic rifle. Greater than 25 strength to reach "will help at all" implies that the strength values are wildly out of whack.

schmithub commented 8 years ago

It's not very realistic that strength lessens the affect of recoil. Dealing with recoil is more a measure of skill. Strength of the wielder is however a factor in the "wieldiness" of a heavier weapon, i.e., better strength would improve one's time to acquire target with a heavy firearm. However, as you start looking at lighter firearms this starts become more of a moot factor. Also all things being equal (outside of the inherent individual characteristics of different firearms), the heavier a firearm is the more it tends to dampen the affects of recoil.

Firestorm01X2 commented 5 years ago

Additionally this issue STILL exists: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/27248

It was closed by mistake (Kevin's attitude). Issue still exist. Watch out!

Bows and slings have no recoil, meaning you can aim once and then get all the headshots you need without aiming

Should be fixed.