Simple knife spear don't drop the knife when broken

[SariusSkelrets]

Describe the bug

When the simple knife spear breaks, the knife (that doesn't have the FRAGILE_MELEE tag) disappears

Steps To Reproduce

1. spawn a debug monster and a simple knife spear
2. attack until the spear breaks
3. notice that the knife dissapeared

Expected behavior

I expect the fragility of the simple knife spear to come from how the stick and the knife are holded together. When the spear breaks, the rope is unsalvageable, the stick might lose a shard but the knife itself shouldn't damaged

Versions and configuration

OS: Windows OS Version: 10.0 2004 Game Version: 0.E-9280-g9dde4db-dirty [32-bit] Graphics Version: Tiles Game Language: English [en] Mods loaded: Dark Days Ahead [dda], Disable NPC Needs [no_npc_food], Bionic Professions [package_bionic_professions], Dark Days of the Dead [classic_zombies]

[eltank]

All items disappear when their durability drops to 0. This is more evident with fragile weapons because they reach that point more easily, but any weapon will disappear eventually if you keep using it without repairing (including knives).

It sounds like you're asking for the simple knife spear to be handled as a special case, causing it to break up into components when damaged. Alternatively, you might argue that all weapons should break down into some kind of scrap (e.g. splintered wood and scrap metal), with the possibility to override what it breaks down into via JSON.

In any case, I don't think this is a problem with a simple fix.

[Anaglyphic]

Hmm. Yep. Another one of those "makes perfect sense" things, but probably won't be "fixed" because it was done by intent.

Have you tried crafting / repairing above your ability/proficiency, to increase said ability/proficiency? Your stuff is destroyed, not deconstructed. It's gone. You don't get the components you would had you disassembled it. That's the "price" of failure and/or learning, much as the "price" for not noticing your weapon was so close to breaking and making another or repairing it before it happened.

[actual-nh]

Hmm. Yep. Another one of those "makes perfect sense" things, but probably won't be "fixed" because it was done by intent.

Maybe. Or it's simply not been worked on.

Have you tried crafting / repairing above your ability/proficiency, to increase said ability/proficiency? Your stuff is destroyed, not deconstructed. It's gone. You don't get the components you would had you disassembled it. That's the "price" of failure and/or learning, much as the "price" for not noticing your weapon was so close to breaking and making another or repairing it before it happened.

This is still under development.

[SariusSkelrets]

Have you tried crafting / repairing above your ability/proficiency, to increase said ability/proficiency? Your stuff is destroyed, not deconstructed. It's gone. You don't get the components you would had you disassembled it. That's the "price" of failure and/or learning, much as the "price" for not noticing your weapon was so close to breaking and making another or repairing it before it

CDDA is a game that aims to simulate many real-world things, including the thermodynamic. It’s why the carrion spawns are currently not implemented: they violated the first law by appearing out of nowhere. Stuff breaking into oblivion without any salvageable bit is a violation of the thermodynamics.

Furniture and cars already break into pieces. While it might need separate C++ coding, it shows that such a system is both possible and endorsed. The main reason it’s not implemented is that it needs both C++ skills and time to add the system and the JSON that tells the item what it leaves when broken

[Anaglyphic]

Lol what isn't under development? I've git logged a lot of files since '17 thru now, the world of cdda has changed immensely, which is fantastic.

But - How is it reality that you get a knife back, after you used the spear until it's so damaged it failed?

Sure some of it could just be extending the JSON to include that something happens, but you're not getting a knife back. If you edit that and someone checks it in, I will hound them on their personal emails until they just surrender to harassment and change it back :smiling_imp: OK maybe not, but that's definitely how I feel about it.

The farthest I'd be willing to go in this scenario, is you get back 5 splintered wood (filthy) and 2 scrap metal (filthy) - come on, you were just stabbing zombies with it, if just wearing their clothes earns tag "FILTHY" stabbing them in the guts with a blade tied to a stick?

The knife IS damaged by the usage. Your assumption is that the crappy tying job is what fails in the simple knife spear, why it earns MELEE_FRAGILE, but what if it's the chipped and bent blade that fails?

That's another thing - given a character's stats and skills, that simple knife spear is say, Bash 5 Pierce 19 TH +1... regardless of how it's constructed! It could be made from a durable but ultimately useless spear point, like a meat cleaver with a flat front, making it more a halberd than a spear.

You could literally make one from cleaver, broom, rag, and thread... and make another one from a 16" Rambo survival knife, 10' oak pole, leather, and cordage... and these are the same weapons, same stats, same wear? How is that fair?! How is that reality? In fact some knives like combat, hunting, kukri, etc are higher stats than the completed simple knife spear, and the only reason would be to do it for the reach, or that you took sojutsu as your melee skill or whatever. (that's more a "discovery" thing than a "reality" thing so not on-topic but just wanted to point that out.)

In the scheme of things, which would you have done first, assuming all free time and therefore coding time, is limited? I'd love to see the weapon system extended the way the recipes system is being worked on, so components matter both for ability but also durability.

Yea everything's in constant development, but that you get a knife back after you use it as a simple knife spear and use it til it is destroyed? Absolutely not.

[actual-nh]

The knife IS damaged by the usage. Your assumption is that the crappy tying job is what fails in the simple knife spear, why it earns MELEE_FRAGILE, but what if it's the chipped and bent blade that fails?

The knife alone does not have MELEE_FRAGILE, however. The stick breaking is, I agree, at least as likely as the binding.

I agree that some further work on the weapon recipes would be nice.

[SariusSkelrets]

But - How is it reality that you get a knife back, after you used the spear until it's so damaged it

If you didn’t noticed yet, I’m not talking about the regular, well made spear. I’m talking about the simple version described as a knife and a stick held together by tape.

You want to test a simple knife spear IRL? Take a knife. Hit a tree some times. If the knife isn’t visibly damaged, take a broom and some tape and tie them together. Now hit the tree with the spear. Whatever is holding the spear in one piece will fail long before the main parts

My point is that the bind will be the first thing to break and thus should give the knife back. The regular knife spear does not have such glaring weakness and will eventually break the knife and/or the stick

Sure some of it could just be extending the JSON to include that something happens, but you're not getting a knife back. If you edit that and someone checks it in, I will hound them on their personal emails until they just surrender to harassment and change it back 😈 OK maybe not, but that's definitely how I feel about it.

As said before, it’s fine if the regular spear breaks in something that not a knife. There’s a reason why there’s the word ‘’simple’’ in the title and it’s because I’m talking about the loosely-assembled sharp-on-a-stick that can be separated with scissors

Also threats, even as a ‘’joke’’ won’t be tolerated

The farthest I'd be willing to go in this scenario, is you get back 5 splintered wood (filthy) and 2 scrap metal (filthy) - come on, you were just stabbing zombies with it, if just wearing their clothes earns tag "FILTHY" stabbing them in the guts with a blade tied to a stick?

I’ll repeat it for each paragraph I’ll answer, it’s not about the sturdy knife spear. The sturdy can and will break into pieces

If someone added code and effects for filthy weapons, the pieces will be filthy only if the weapon was filthy too

The knife IS damaged by the usage. Your assumption is that the crappy tying job is what fails in the simple knife spear, why it earns MELEE_FRAGILE, but what if it's the chipped and bent blade that fails?

MELEE_FRAGILE is to simulate that the weapon have a weakness somewhere that will soon make it unusable as-it: the weak point between the knife and the spear as each hit causes a torsion on the binding All the knifes that can be used in the recipes will last longer than the simple spear

That's another thing - given a character's stats and skills, that simple knife spear is say, Bash 5 Pierce 19 TH +1... regardless of how it's constructed! It could be made from a durable but ultimately useless spear point, like a meat cleaver with a flat front, making it more a halberd than a spear.

There was a discussion about adding modifiers to found/crafted items Food inherits properties from its ingredients so if someone can add effects and differences for every combination of knife+spear, it will be nice to have

You could literally make one from cleaver, broom, rag, and thread... and make another one from a 16" Rambo survival knife, 10' oak pole, leather, and cordage... and these are the same weapons, same stats, same wear? How is that fair?! How is that reality? In fact some knives like combat, hunting, kukri, etc are higher stats than the completed simple knife spear, and the only reason would be to do it for the reach, or that you took sojutsu as your melee skill or whatever. (that's more a "discovery" thing than a "reality" thing so not on-topic but just wanted to point that out.)

Be the change you want to be. Add different weapons modifiers based on the materials used during the crafting and manage to get them ingame. It will need variations for every single recipe so it will take a long time and it’s why we don’t have that now

In the scheme of things, which would you have done first, assuming all free time and therefore coding time, is limited? I'd love to see the weapon system extended the way the recipes system is being worked on, so components matter both for ability but also durability.

I know that time is a ressource, but the goal of a report is to be Eventually fixed. All things need a start and this PR is the start of adding items that break into pieces as furniture and cars already do

Yea everything's in constant development, but that you get a knife back after you use it as a simple knife spear and use it til it is destroyed? Absolutely not.

If the spear was able to break its knife, the knife wouldn’t lasted long by itself. The weakest point breaks first: with a sturdy knife and a decent stick, the first thing that fall apart is the tape. So the knife is dropped as a knife and the player gets it back.

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