Way to obtain Alpha samples is unreasonably awful.

[cataclysmsurvivalist]

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe.

While not limited to just the Prime/Elf-A mutation branch, alpha samples may just be the standout example to how limiting the new sample system can be. It can only be obtained by defeating very rare enemies that only may show up in labs, with no other way to be obtained.

So, trying to cross the Prime threshold not only requires you to find the Alpha Preliminary Report - by itself an extremely rare manual that isn't guaranteed to be found even as a reward for lab finales - but you also have no way of farming for what you need.

Solution you would like.

Allow alpha samples to be alchemized by combining regular human samples with something else, or simply replace alpha samples with human samples in the Alpha recipes.

Describe alternatives you have considered.

Or even consider dialing back on the sample system for some branches. I understand that samples can be useful ways to specify which mutagen you're going for, I agree that it's preferable to the older days for when mutagens for animalistic mutation branches only needed generic chunks of meat as ingredients, but I don't think every single branch in the game needs to narrow it down so much.

We already have human samples and purifiers, are specific "alpha" samples really necessary here? As I said, this isn't even exclusive to Prime mutants, I don't think we also need bird samples when just using bird eggs made as much sense.

Additional context

No response

[anoobindisguise]

Alpha samples are OK, in theory, but they raise a question of how the first alpha mutant was created. If you need alpha samples to make an alpha mutant, how did you get the first alpha mutant? Might be just some XEDRA magic that doesn't need explanation but it feels a little weird.

[cataclysmsurvivalist]

Alpha samples are OK, in theory, but they raise a question of how the first alpha mutant was created. If you need alpha samples to make an alpha mutant, how did you get the first alpha mutant? Might be just some XEDRA magic that doesn't need explanation but it feels a little weird.

Maybe they were meant to be the kind of complicated thing you can only produce with an entire industry of people working on, like the arc welder, which you can't create by yourself and can only build makeshift copies of. But biochemical components like that being excluded from the player is unacceptable, as we've been able to build injectable mutagens by ourselves since day 1. I can buy equipment being too outlandish to construct by yourself; not so much when it's an item and you already obtained all the equipment you need to replicate it through looting labs. It's clearly the kind of thing the devs either haven't considered much, or have noticed how bad it is but haven't come around to fix due to having to work on something else.

[bean-b]

Alpha primers are some of the easiest mutagens to loot, which i do think balances it out some

[cataclysmsurvivalist]

Alpha primers are some of the easiest mutagens to loot

How and where?

[bean-b]

I find alpha primers in the locked metal rooms of labs very often, more so then other mutagens. However I haven't gotten a charchter up to the crafting level of mutagens so ofc my experience would be different.

[cataclysmsurvivalist]

I have played hundreds of games over the past 4 years, most of which start in labs, and I obtained prime mutagens as lab finishers exactly once. In fact, before that game, I didn't even know alpha mutagens existed in the open world and thought you had to make them yourself.

[bean-b]

Are you playing on expiremental? I've found them not in the finals, but in the locked rooms inside of labs

[Maleclypse]

I have played hundreds of games over the past 4 years, most of which start in labs, and I obtained prime mutagens as lab finishers exactly once. In fact, before that game, I didn't even know alpha mutagens existed in the open world and thought you had to make them yourself.

You're in the wrong labs if you are hunting for alpha in the procgen (old) labs. There's a microlab where one in eight or so of the monsters drop alpha samples.

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[Zireael07]

Related: #54412

[RenechCDDA]

You're in the wrong labs if you are hunting for alpha in the procgen (old) labs. There's a microlab where one in eight or so of the monsters drop alpha samples.

Sorry which microlab tile is supposed to be this? mon_mutant_alpha only spawns with a 50% chance in the firebreak tile (one of several versions) and the only other place it appears is in GROUP_MUTANT_EVOLVED where it has an eye-watering 1% chance to appear. Okay, I've never seen the ratkin lab either. And apparently the mouse of NEMA drops alpha samples on dissection? Why? It has no indication that it will do so or any relation to alphas whatosever. Especially if you dissect all its friends and get nothing but rat samples how would you possibly think this random weirdo mouse is going to drop alphas?

This sort of thing is exactly why it's so frustrating to try and get alpha mutations currently. It's widely regarded as not even a very good line, it's just safe and offers bonuses that are useful for everyone. I don't see why it's so arbitrarily difficult to obtain.