Forges are *substitutes* for each other, down to the individual charge

[RenechCDDA]

Describe the bug

60kJ = ~62.4g of charcoal??? This is a value of about 1MJ/kg.

Wood contains about 16-18MJ/kg. Charcoal and coal contain more (it varies but it's not off by an entire 10x!!).

For an even worse comparison, we can do propane. Propane has an energy density of about 25MJ/L, and one unit of propane is 1mL. So that's 60mL, or in other words: 60kJ electricity = ~1.5MJ of propane.

This is why: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/9020c00c9be57e2d0b21f023bf95482de327e481/data/json/items/tool/metalworking.json#L70

All the forges are substitutes. They should not be substitutes.

Attach save file

N/A

Steps to reproduce

Open the crafting menu

Expected behavior

"sub" should be removed from all forges that aren't actual duplicates (i.e. mounted and non-mounted electric forge).

A new requirements set should be made, containing all the previous forges.

The requirements set should have the forges in some proportion which makes energy sense (not 1 unit of charcoal forge = 1 unit of electric forge)

Screenshots

No response

Versions and configuration

9020c00c9be57e2d0b21f023bf95482de327e481

Additional context

No response

[anoobindisguise]

I keep hoping @Drew4484 will figure out blacksmithing costs for me lol. They're pretty glaring now that food and welding have been adjusted.

[RenechCDDA]

I wasn't going to volunteer you but I was kind of hoping the same - that you'd do it, @anoobindisguise :D

There are definitely lots of nonsense values for forging, and I knew this, but the revelation that charges are 1:1 for each other is pretty bad.

[Drew4484]

I keep hoping @Drew4484 will figure out blacksmithing costs for me lol. They're pretty glaring now that food and welding have been adjusted.

Here's a good start, a document from the US DoE about minimal energy requirements to produce steel from scrap/ore. I haven't converted this to any of our crafts yet as it is based on BTU per ton. I don't expect that will be a 1:1 scaling but should give us a general idea of where our numbers should land.

For a gas furnace using propane, 1 - 2 pounds of propane per hour per burner is a reasonable consumption rate.

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[Maleclypse]

So I’m finding a “consensus” of 2 lbs charcoal per hour forging. We could estimate what percentage of crafting is spent forging and then apply that?

[Drew4484]

So I’m finding a “consensus” of 2 lbs charcoal per hour forging. We could estimate what percentage of crafting is spent forging and then apply that?

I don't think would result in much reduction, particularly for solid fuel forges. Unless you're absolutely certain you're done heating the metal, you'd want to keep the forge hot. For gas/electric, those generally get up to operating temperatures faster, but even then, starting and stopping the forge is going to take time and still consume resources while things heat back up.

A hypothetical cost reduction would have less impact than adjusting the energy costs by fuel type, encouraging players to aim for more efficient forged rather than dumping tons of charcoal into a rock forge.