3D Printing

[DragonWizard23]

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe.

This feature request isn't related to a problem, it's simply an idea I found interesting enough to suggest: 3D printing in CDDA. As this is a broad idea, this feature request is intended to be a scaffold for others to provide feedback on and add suggestions.

Solution you would like.

1. Adding 3D printers and filament. a. Filament should be pretty straightforward to add. I think it could use a similar system as rolls of duct tape (afaik, it always exists on rolls and it filament strands can't be combined on a single roll (i.e. you can't connect the ends of two shorter strands and "reload" a filament roll to full). I think we could start by abstracting 3D printing filament as a single item and we could expand this into different filament types later. b. 3D printers, however, could be significantly more sophisticated. They should require electricity and filament to print. Additionally, printing should take time to complete, but should not require the player except to begin, troubleshoot, and finish the print. Later, we could add multiple levels of printers, such as "budget 3D printer", "high-end 3D printer", and "professional 3D printer". Better printers could have more success with printing complex designs, ability to use multiple filament types/multiple rolls of filament, larger print beds, and faster printing speeds.

2. Adding 3D printing recipes. a. 3D printing, as I understand it, generally doesn't require the user to conceptually understand how the item being printed functions, but instead requires knowledge of how to setup the printer for the specific design (e.g. heated bed temperature, printing resolution, backfill, etc). Therefore, 3D printing should use computer/devices skill instead of fabrication. Using 3D printed components to make things however, would use fabrication skill. b. Successful printing should rely on the player's skills, the printer's condition (++ to .), and the complexity of the design being printed. When printing isn't successful, it could either have a minor failure, and resume printing after player intervention (perhaps wasting some filament), or fail catastrophically, destroying the print entirely or even damaging the printer. c. 3D printing recipes generally shouldn't be auto-learned, but simple designs could be learnable, using the system I-am-Erk described in #73612. I propose that most 3D printing recipes are instead discovered on USB drives and/or memory cards. d. There are numerous items that are possible to 3D print, and we can add them in stages. Of course, 3D printed weaponry and weapon parts (trigger mechanisms, magazines, etc) are likely to be of great interest to the cataclysm survivor, but 3D printers could also be used to print containers, tools, armor, and maybe even some vehicle parts printed in sections that connect together (quarterpanels, dashboards, steering wheel).

Describe alternatives you have considered.

A less desirable alternative that I thought of was simply creating recipes that require a 3D printer with enough charges to craft. I didn't favor this idea because it requires the player to be present for the whole time that the printer is running.

Additional context

No response

[XygenSS]

Generally shifting plastic vacuum molding recipes to 3D printing would be nice.

[PavelZhd]

I'd say than 3D printing is an alternative to vacuum molding recipes, but not 1 to 1. Vacuum molding is much faster. But 3D printer allows for more variety of shapes. So I suppose both should stay with some recipes being available for both tools (with molds being faster), and some available only for 3D printer. So there is incentive to have both tools.

[kevingranade]

There are a number of issues with adding 3D printing. One, your assertion that ability to 3D print is based on the user's ability to operate a 3D printer assumes that they are working not just from a design, but an extremely well proven design. In reality there are many designs out there you need to heavily modify in order to get it printing, at which point you have to repeat the final stages of testing and adjusting the design in order to get a working output. This is much more the case for the survivor scenario because you're interested in working solutions instead of things that "look right".

The bigger issue here is where are you getting your design files from? There's no internet, we have no robust way to search for files on people's computers, and many of the designs of particular interest are low-grade contraband, so where are you getting them? "finding files on USB sticks in the trash" is already stretched past its breaking point, it is most definitely not reasonable to further extend it to cover an entirely new way of crafting items.

Even if you find a house or workplace with 3D printers (which is a safe assumption, because otherwise you aren't going to have a 3D printer in the first place), most of the design files you're going to find are going to be figurines, toys, and replacement parts for random appliances, not things you want/need.

So the reality is, if you want to 3D print useful items as a survivor, you need to find a working 3D printer, the software for it (including both drivers and design software, oops licenses), filament, and then proceed to create your own designs, which is days to weeks of work for marginally useful items and literally years of work for things like working guns, where in practically all circumstances there are better alternatives for everything you could possibly make that are easier to find than a working 3D printer.

There's another issue, which is that your idea about what you can meaningfully print is bizzarely expansive. You're literally suggesting making car parts and body armor out of printed plastic, this is ludicrous. Even things like buckles are a hard sell because 3D printed plastic just isn't that tough of a material.

[Zireael07]

3D printing is being used irl to build building out of, so a simple panel isn't a stretch. Steering wheel and armor though are big NOPE

[kevingranade]

People are not using RepRaps to print buildings, they are using large form factor custom printers that are definitely not going to be added.

[Zireael07]

Ah, if OP meant small household printers then yep, buildings and panels aren't happening

[DragonWizard23]

Hi @kevingranade, thanks for the comment and reality check.

I agree with your point about well-made designs vs tweaking designs to fit your specific needs. You're absolutely right that many designs need adjustments for a specific use-case. However, simple and/or already tested designs may nearly be "working solutions" as-is. As an example, consider 3D printing water tight containers. The author certainly spent a lot of time (read: more than a year) figuring out how to print water tight containers, but if I wanted to make my own using those designs, I only need to tweak my slicer settings and likely do a couple of trial runs and small adjustments for the best results. Designing new prints from scratch would be prohibitively time-consuming, but small adjustments, such as increasing the size or aspect ratio of the provided designs, would not be.

The bigger issue here is where are you getting your design files from?

Yes, this is admittedly the weakest part of my idea. You're right, it isn't sensible to simply find design files on USB drives in just about any location (except maybe a survivor's hideout or a makerspace/design lab). And even in that case, the files are unlikely to be of much use for a post-cataclysm survivor, like you said.

I didn't realize that 3D printing technology was so very uncapable of practical use either. I didn't intend to imply that 3D printed items would be of similar quality as other production methods, but I thought it would at least be feasible to make low-grade items in a pinch. They would be better than nothing, but not as good as alternative methods. (For armor, I had something like flimsy arm or shin guards in mind, not plate or ballistic armor, though again, the problem of design files remains.)

While it may not be feasible for the player to 3D print useful goods, an alternative idea is a solitary NPC who has 3D printers and experience using them and designing prints. For a fee and some time, the player could purchase 3D printed items.

Lastly, apologies for the late response. My personal life has been unexpectedly busy recently, but I hope you'll see that my idea was in good faith, just a little out-of-touch with reality. :)

[kevingranade]

No problems, what you're proposing is similar to things that have been proposed many times before, it's just it doesn't really mesh well with the setting. Like I'm not saying you can't add 3D printer's, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find things you can reasonably make with them, and you should probably start from there.

an alternative idea is a solitary NPC who has 3D printers and experience using them and designing prints.

If you want to have a craftsman NPC, they can have a whole workshop and be able to produce quite a variety of different items. But still, you'd need to put some thought into what their needs are and specifically what they'd need from the player. "Just add a NPC that can sell you stuff" isn't really a great start to making a NPC. Regardless, that's not really featuring the 3D printer, no need to stretch like that.

[zachary-kaelan]

I say forget about printing "everyday" items or items you can just easily craft or scavenge anywhere.

During the pandemic, supposedly people volunteered their personal printers to print face shields due to the sudden need for a large number of them. There are probably a few things in the game's extensive list of crafting ingredients that can't be crafted, are difficult to find, and you may suddenly want larger amounts of in bulk. For example, to outfit all the NPCs in a basecamp, or to produce a number of robots.

On top of bionics rooms and mutagen rooms and such in labs, we could have a "3D printing room" with a 3D printer and some designs. It would make sense for them to want to reliably make a variety of components on demand for prototype development. Some designs could be for robot parts, or parts that can be used for crafting a few simple CBMs (like the syringe one).

[Maddremor]

I know of those (or at least similar) face shields, I took part in putting them together after they were printed. If your survivor is in need of that they can make something good enough with some metal wire and a pair of pliers. When it comes to structural parts in general you can both carve/saw wood and cut segments out of sheet metal.

[zachary-kaelan]

I know of those (or at least similar) face shields, I took part in putting them together after they were printed. If your survivor is in need of that they can make something good enough with some metal wire and a pair of pliers. When it comes to structural parts in general you can both carve/saw wood and cut segments out of sheet metal.

Oh no it definitely wouldn't be used for that, we can just loot loads of stuff like that from hospitals and the like already.