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CobaltWolf / Bluedog-Design-Bureau

Stockalike parts pack for Kerbal Space Program
https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/122020-131mostly-functional-141-bluedog-design-bureau-stockalike-saturn-apollo-and-more-v142-%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81-1feb2018/
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Atlas #974

Open zorg2044 opened 3 years ago

zorg2044 commented 3 years ago

Classic Atlas Revamp

LR89

LR105

LR101

RD-180

New booster skirt

New Core tank mesh variations (there will be texture variations for unique paint schemes)

Aft tank

1.875m Conical Extension tanks (top diameter x length)

Cylindrical Extension Tanks

SLV-3X and early 5 engine atlas

Rework CELV parts.

Payloads

Other stuff

fairings [See SAF issue]

Japanese derivatives

paint variants

Decals

Extra features

Atlas V Revamp

GoldForest383 commented 3 years ago

Could we get: OV-1 Satellite OV-1 Tank Side mount OV-1x2 Payload Adapter (As mentioned) OV-1x3 Payload Adapter

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/atlas-ov1.jpg

CobaltWolf commented 3 years ago

@zorg2044 feel free to do whatever you want with the Atlas parts - I trust you :) If you think you need to adjust the way the metal is done (or, dare I say...) go for it. Let me know what assets you need. Some thoughts / additions I'd like below:

L2 is going to be a gold mine for all this stuff. Do you still have a subscription?

Something I definitely think we need - Atlas E/F side pods as a variant for the "main" tank. This is the one with the big bulge on the longer (?) pod.

15b380388e04e593e4311f6d9618963b

Another "must-have" for this - a 4x booster skirt like the original full sized Atlas design had. It's definitely doable at 2.5m in KSP (don't get too attached to this drawing - I just mean the general concept). It will also likely need a different adapter tank to connect the "main" SLV-3X tank to the sustainer tank.

image

I'd still like to see a solution for the LH2 vent pipe

DF-SC-99-00074_cropped_and_rotated

If Invaderchaos is making more DMSP sats and such, we need to have solutions for the military surplus Atlas variants like Atlas H.

image Atlas-H

And as an aside to you and the rest of the crew ( @jsolson @blowfishpro @Invaderchaos ) - if we want, you can be doing point releases to push out your projects independent of the main releases (ie Saturn/Apollo). Probably would be a good way to keep things going now that we have multiple artists. My question is - what is the deal with working on branches? Because I feel like that would be a lot easier to manage for pushing out multiple streams of content?

zorg2044 commented 3 years ago

@CobaltWolf My L2 has lapsed but I will be renewing. I totally forgot we already talked about MSD earlier (fairing and adapter). Anyway yeah definitely put that back on the pile, perhaps even the altair acs kit.

Re metal I imitated the atlas textures for the peacekeeper fairing and I gotta say I was quite happy with it. I can look at tweaking it a bit though.

Re files I could use the FBX for 1.875 and 2.5m parts together with the all the PSDs for the 1.875m parts at least.

spacefacey commented 3 years ago

Not really Atlas but what about some Atlas V revamps?

DaveJ576 commented 2 years ago

Is it possible to get proper versions of all of the Atlas ICBM warheads (oops.. "reentry vehicles" lol)? atlas-ICBM

Also, notice that on the early Atlas A's the booster skirt is longer, especially around the (missing) sustainer engine. 19570611_004A_2_1812

DaveJ576 commented 2 years ago

Here is another for consideration... I have it on reliable authority (Ed Kyle, spacelaunchreport.com) that all of the Atlas models with the stage and a half configuration (B through F, even to the Atlas 2AS) had only two "jettison tracks" on the sustainer section for the booster skirt, not four. image

zorg2044 commented 2 years ago

Is it possible to get proper versions of all of the Atlas ICBM warheads

Not planning on doing more "reentry vehicles". We just have the Titan II one because that particular configuration looks very nice and the Peacekeeper one since it made sense as inspiration for a fairing.

Here is another for consideration... I have it on reliable authority (Ed Kyle, spacelaunchreport.com) that all of the Atlas models with the stage and a half configuration (B through F, even to the Atlas 2AS) had only two "jettison tracks" on the sustainer section for the booster skirt, not four.

Yup that lines up with the reference diagrams I have. Appreciate the close up picture though.

JovietUnion commented 2 years ago

Does peacekeepers include minuteman III? And the decoys?

On Mon, May 2, 2022, 10:22 AM zorg2044 @.***> wrote:

Is it possible to get proper versions of all of the Atlas ICBM warheads

Not planning on doing more "reentry vehicles". We just have the Titan II one because that particular configuration looks very nice and the Peacekeeper one since it made sense as inspiration for a fairing.

Here is another for consideration... I have it on reliable authority (Ed Kyle, spacelaunchreport.com) that all of the Atlas models with the stage and a half configuration (B through F, even to the Atlas 2AS) had only two "jettison tracks" on the sustainer section for the booster skirt, not four.

Yup that lines up with the reference diagrams I have. Appreciate the close up picture though.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/issues/974#issuecomment-1114954281, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AO7I6JVKOOXY6CISDCUL3KDVH7QKDANCNFSM4SZRUMJA . You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: @.***>

CobaltWolf commented 2 years ago

No, Peacekeeper is MX.

DaveJ576 commented 2 years ago

By the way, there is an "Atlas Q&A" thread on the public, non-L2 portion of the NASASpaceflight.com forums. Ed Kyle is a frequent contributor and is very gracious in answering questions. It may be a good source of info the dev team, if you haven't already done so.

CobaltWolf commented 1 year ago

Matt told me to do an issue for this for zorg or whoever gets around to the atlas revamp.

The current atlas tapered section is a straight angle, and is not filleted, like the real thing.

image

image

I imagine the best way to implement this is like how it is done on SIV, where the filleted section is part of the tapered section.

1278

jehannes commented 1 year ago

maybe a skirt with the engine integrated for the early shared turbo pump variants?

CobaltWolf commented 1 year ago

@jehannes I don't think there's a need, since that would be functionally the same (in kerbal) as just placing the two separate engines on the skirt.

JacobB094 commented 3 weeks ago

On the topic of Atlas revamp, would that be possible to make a Star-63 (PAM-D2)? I'm asking because it was part of a peculiar Atlas variant, which stacked it with a Star-48A: https://web.archive.org/web/20220406014718/http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/atlas-k.jpg PAM-D2 actually flew on Commercial Titan 3 and on the Shuttle, however the Atlas-K proposal is probably the most interesting application for it.

zorg2044 commented 3 weeks ago

On the topic of Atlas revamp, would that be possible to make a Star-63 (PAM-D2)? I'm asking because it was part of a peculiar Atlas variant, which stacked it with a Star-48A: https://web.archive.org/web/20220406014718/http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/atlas-k.jpg PAM-D2 actually flew on Commercial Titan 3 and on the Shuttle, however the Atlas-K proposal is probably the most interesting application for it.

Seems an easy ask. I'll put it on the list for later

image

JacobB094 commented 3 weeks ago

It should probably be noted that the motor had a white thermal blanket over it when it flew on the Shuttle: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/STS-61-B_SATCOM_Ku-2_deployment.jpg I would expect Atlas and Titan variants to also have it.

JacobB094 commented 2 weeks ago

Since we now have a Delta-style paintjob for the Atlas tankage, I have a request that you'll find quite bizarre (and thus probably love it): a 3xLR-79 boattail, with 12 Delta-style SRB mounts, designed to attach below the upper part of the Atlas V CCB.

The purpose of this part would be to recreate Delta 4000 from ETS, therefore completing the US rocket lineup from that AU. The upper tank from the CCB is about the right size for WBELT (same height as ELT, wide enough to comfortably fit 3 LR-79s and 12 boosters), so all it really needs is a nice, Delta-style boattail that would give the raceway a neat endcap and cover the engines. The resulting rocket, tested with a stock engine plate, flies quite well. Additional configuration options are welcome, of course.

zorg2044 commented 2 weeks ago

Since we now have a Delta-style paintjob for the Atlas tankage, I have a request that you'll find quite bizarre (and thus probably love it): a 3xLR-79 boattail, with 12 Delta-style SRB mounts, designed to attach below the upper part of the Atlas V CCB.

The purpose of this part would be to recreate Delta 4000 from ETS, therefore completing the US rocket lineup from that AU. The upper tank from the CCB is about the right size for WBELT (same height as ELT, wide enough to comfortably fit 3 LR-79s and 12 boosters), so all it really needs is a nice, Delta-style boattail that would give the raceway a neat endcap and cover the engines. The resulting rocket, tested with a stock engine plate, flies quite well. Additional configuration options are welcome, of course.

Hmm it's a thought, I'll keep it in mind if I have some texture space left. there was never any art for WBELT was there? its been a while since I read ETS. Was the diameter and tank lengths specified?

JacobB094 commented 2 weeks ago

No, nothing but masses and engines. In fact, if made, the KSP rendition would be the first visual art of an ETS Delta 4000 and 5000. My work is pure scientific guesswork. This is probably the least developed launch vehicle in ETS, which is probably why nobody made anything for it back when Thor-Delta was being reworked. Quite frankly, it's also probably one of the least sensible bits from the AU, since the whole point of using Thor technology was that they could keep the tooling and so on.

I based my build on the following observations:

  1. WBELT needs to support 12 GEM-46s with enough space between them to allow a clean separation. That alone rules out a 3m (1.875m in KSP) core. A 4m core (2.5m KSP) allows for a little more clearance between boosters than on a Delta II Heavy. It also does not allow for more than 12 SRBs, either Castors or GEMs. So this checks out.
  2. It's a tight fit, but 3xLR-79 can be crammed under a 2.5m tank in KSP with enough room for gimbaling and turbopump exhaust pipes. I would say that this further supports the 4m core diameter.
  3. Propellant mass is about 67% of what Atlas V carries. Tank technology is essentially similar, so WBELT is probably not a common bulkhead stage. This works out to a stage that's about two thirds the length of Atlas V core, coincidently this is about the height of the ELT. The only conceivable reason to widen a stage instead of stretching it is keeping the rocket's height under control. The resulting vehicle, sans Centaur fairing, is the height of a Delta 3000 with the fairing. So about 22m (IRL) length for WBELT seems correct. I didn't run precise numbers, but a rough estimate checks out.
  4. Now, the upper Atlas tank in BDB only looks right, it's actually shorter (due to the intertank with space for sep motors), but that's all right, the real thing would have had an intertank in the middle instead, so the propellant load checks out. It would likely have had separation motors, too. With three engines, it hits all the performance targets it's supposed to, including useful TWR in the boosterless configuration.

I wouldn't mind a dedicated tank for the WBELT, maybe using Thor textures, but the whole thing looks more like a deranged Atlas derivative than any sort of Delta, even if you do paint it blue. It does fly nicely, at least.

JovietUnion commented 2 weeks ago

So, would this meet the performance marks in JNSQ, or is this stock KSP and/or OPM we're referring to?

On Sun, Jun 9, 2024, 6:23 PM JacobB094 @.***> wrote:

No, nothing but masses and engines. In fact, if made, the KSP rendition would be the first visual art of an ETS Delta 4000 and 5000. My work is pure scientific guesswork. This is probably the least developed launch vehicle in ETS, which is probably why nobody made anything for it back when Thor-Delta was being reworked. Quite frankly, it's also probably one of the least sensible bits from the AU, since the whole point of using Thor technology was that they could keep the tooling and so on.

I based my build on the following observations:

  1. WBELT needs to support 12 GEM-46s with enough space between them to allow a clean separation. That alone rules out a 3m (1.875m in KSP) core. A 4m core (2.5m KSP) allows for a little more clearance between boosters than on a Delta II Heavy. It also does not allow for more than 12 SRBs, either Castors or GEMs. So this checks out.
  2. It's a tight fit, but 3xLR-79 can be crammed under a 2.5m tank in KSP with enough room for gimbaling and turbopump exhaust pipes. I would say that this further supports the 4m core diameter.
  3. Propellant mass is about 67% of what Atlas V carries. Tank technology is essentially similar, so WBELT is probably not a common bulkhead stage. This works out to a stage that's about two thirds the length of Atlas V core, coincidently this is about the height of the ELT. The only conceivable reason to widen a stage instead of stretching it is keeping the rocket's height under control. The resulting vehicle, sans Centaur fairing, is the height of a Delta 3000 with the fairing. So about 22m (IRL) length for WBELT seems correct. I didn't run precise numbers, but a rough estimate checks out.
  4. Now, the upper Atlas tank in BDB only looks right, it's actually shorter (due to the intertank with space for sep motors), but that's all right, the real thing would have had an intertank in the middle instead, so the propellant load checks out. It would likely have had separation motors, too. With three engines, it hits all the performance targets it's supposed to, including useful TWR in the boosterless configuration.

I wouldn't mind a dedicated tank for the WBELT, maybe using Thor textures, but the whole thing looks more like a deranged Atlas derivative than any sort of Delta, even if you do paint it blue. It does fly nicely, at least.

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JacobB094 commented 2 weeks ago

My tests were in KSRSS 2.5x. In JNSQ, it would perform very similarly, except with extra margins for not having to deal with inclination.