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CvGC / dict

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menre #19

Open solpahi opened 8 years ago

solpahi commented 8 years ago

mezohe said:

pe'i xamgu fa tu'a su'o notci be lo nu ba'e na smujbi zo sinxa ja zo la'e

So yeah, we should find a good way to explain what "among" means, and what it doesn't mean.

solpahi commented 8 years ago

"A sumti refers to a thing or things, called its referent(s). To be among (the referents of) a sumti means to be one of the things that the sumti refers to. For example, when {lo kelci} refers to the players Bob, Alice and Mary, then Bob is among {lo kelci}, Alice is among {lo kelci} and Mary is among {lo kelci}. Additionally, Bob and Alice taken together are also among {lo kelci}, and the same goes for any other possible selection of those three people. Also important to note is that everything is among itself. {menre} does not mean "part of": For example, {lo bende} refers to a team, not to its members, so the members are not among {lo bende}; they are {cmima} or {pagbu}. The only thing among {lo bende} is the team, because that is what {lo bende} refers to."

Needs a bit of polishing, but the direction might be okay?

uakci commented 8 years ago

Yes.

solpahi commented 8 years ago

The current definition is: x1 is/are among the referent(s) of x2

How would one avoid the slash and still convey that x1 can be singular or plural?

x1 is among the referents of x2

x1 are among the referents of x2

x1 is among x2

x1 are among x2

I know we haven't yet decided on a standard, so please comment in definition guidelines

And we need to come up with three Good Examples.

uakci commented 8 years ago

'is' is all fine. I surely don't want Loglandic definitions like 'K know S about Y'.

My three good examples are:

«mi se zgana lo pulji ne'i lo banxa .i py. jinvi lo du'u mi menre lo pu zi zerlebna» «ro menre be lo te fancu be fi fy. cu rarna'u» «lo nu mi tavla su'o da bu'u lo tigyfoi na nibli lo nu mi menre lo zgibende»

solpahi commented 8 years ago

«mi se zgana lo pulji ne'i lo banxa .i py. jinvi lo du'u mi menre lo pu zi zerlebna» «ro menre be lo te fancu be fi fy. cu rarna'u» «lo nu mi tavla su'o da bu'u lo tigyfoi na nibli lo nu mi menre lo zgibende»

The first example is okay, the second one I'm not sure about (because fancu is problematic in general), but the third example makes the very mistake that the notes mention: If you menre lo zgibende you are yourself a zgibende. mi cmima lo bende is correct, but not mi menre lo bende.