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DCLP / dclpxsltbox

Sandbox for development, testing, and review of XSLT for DCLP
http://dclp.github.io/dclpxsltbox/
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Symbol resembling the acute accent #158

Open andreabernini opened 9 years ago

andreabernini commented 9 years ago

In P.Oxy. 67.4570 fr. 3 ll. 1 and 9 a symbol resembling an acute accent is used for indicating a pause:

Line 1: https://github.com/DCLP/idp.data/blob/dclp/DCLP/68/67830.xml#l130 Comment of the ed.pr. (p. 82): “Unexplained ink in the form of an acute accent above the line after ι in κ̣ύκλω, presumably indicating a pause before the following clause (similar one in 9).

Line 9 (after ὅλ]ας) https://github.com/DCLP/idp.data/blob/dclp/DCLP/68/67830.xml#l138

Since the aim is different, I guess we cannot use the usual symbol for the acute.

rla2118 commented 9 years ago

This sort of semantic insufficiency we're going to face with other standard symbols (e.g., grave accent used to prevent division of compound words). At this stage, I'm reluctant to spend time on rare exceptions, and sometimes we might want to encode in a way that reflects the function of the mark (e.g., as punctuation) rather than to imitate it graphically. In other words, I would be inclined not to invent new Leiden+ when some existing symbol might capture the function of the sign. @HolgerEssler, what do you think?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:30 AM, andreabernini notifications@github.com wrote:

In P.Oxy. 67.4570 fr. 3 ll. 1 and 9 a symbol resembling an acute accent is used for indicating a pause:

Line 1: https://github.com/DCLP/idp.data/blob/dclp/DCLP/68/67830.xml#l130 Comment of the ed.pr. (p. 82): “Unexplained ink in the form of an acute accent above the line after ι in κ̣ύκλω, presumably indicating a pause before the following clause (similar one in 9).

Line 9 (after ὅλ]ας) https://github.com/DCLP/idp.data/blob/dclp/DCLP/68/67830.xml#l138

Since the aim is different, I guess we cannot use the usual symbol for the acute.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/DCLP/dclpxsltbox/issues/158.

paregorios commented 9 years ago

Two issues here, if I may:

  1. What character (or glyph) should be used in the text.
  2. Should there be any associated/encompassing XML/TEI markup to indicate the editors' judgment concerning the semantics and function of that mark at that point in the text.

If it's visually indistinguishable from a standard accent, then I'd lean toward answering question 1 by putting an accent in the XML. If you want to assert that it's doing something other than we would expect in the majority of cases (i.e., being an accent mark), then you'd use markup (e.g., wrapping it in a <pc> element to indicate that it's a punctuation mark.

The follow-on question for Leiden+ is: do you want/need to provide a way to make such markup interventions in the text.

HolgerEssler commented 9 years ago

I agree with Rodney not to introduce new Leiden+ syntax at this stage and would follow Tom's solution of using markup directly in the xml to indicate special functions (if determined without doubt).

rla2118 commented 9 years ago

Wrapping in the element sounds like a good way of dealing with this. As for the follow-up question, this should probably be on our Leiden+ desiderata list, but I would give it lower priority than other things. Can you add it @andreabernini?

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Tom Elliott notifications@github.com wrote:

Two issues here, if I may:

  1. What character (or glyph) should be used in the text.
  2. Should there be any associated/encompassing XML/TEI markup to indicate the editors' judgment concerning the semantics and function of that mark at that point in the text.

If it's visually indistinguishable from a standard accent, then I'd lean toward answering question 1 by putting an accent in the XML. If you want to assert that it's doing something other than we would expect in the majority of cases (i.e., being an accent mark), then you'd use markup (e.g., wrapping it in a element to indicate that it's a punctuation mark.

The follow-on question for Leiden+ is: do you want/need to provide a way to make such markup interventions in the text.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/DCLP/dclpxsltbox/issues/158#issuecomment-147733003.

andreabernini commented 9 years ago

By using markup directly in the xml, should I write something like: <hi rend="pause"> ?

paregorios commented 7 years ago

What I was advocating was something like:

<pc type="pause">'</pc>

See: http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-pc.html

wsalesky commented 7 years ago

@paregorios What is the status of this ticket? Has there been a resolution on the desired display, and the underlying XML? Any data available that I can use to test?

paregorios commented 7 years ago

per discussion with @rla2118 and @jcowey, the suggestion of <pc> sounds good, but implementation to be deferred with respect to higher priorities. There ought to be more research done on the meanings and symbols potentially involved in other examples, and that's not nearly as important as other things at this stage.