Passive Stats and Stat Significance/Equivalency in Regular Play

[LockerM]

Passive Stats Question

Currently the system only indicates the impact of a +X modifier based on ability to make a check with a higher likelihood of success. The rules don't specify that a character with a minimum threshold of a Passive Stat wouldn't need to make a check because of how proficient they are with that skill.

For example, from a recent playtest, a character with +2 Detection indicated that they wish their character could know information they could detect without making a check to avoid using Stamina. It is an open question on which stats would deserve a 'Passive' section that would be indicated directly on the character sheet or referenced by a GM during play to allow for specific characters to receive information "for free" without making a check, or by indicating "this is the information available to you based on your Passive [STAT], you can make a check to get more information if you would like".

Stats Equivalency/Significance Question

What does a +2 or +4 in a specific stat mean relative to a "normal" person. In other systems, a 10 is the standard for an ordinary person, and then increments up to 20 being the highest degree of superlative a human could possibly achieve. What does a +3 INT mean for a character, are they a super genius or just pretty smart? How about a +4 STR, could that person lift a car over their head or just lift 200 pounds without making a check?

It would help for us to codify from -2 to +6 what it means for most of these Attributes to be relative to a standard human so players know roughly what their character is capable of without making checks.

If a character reaches a +4 in STR they likely don't need to worry about carrying something that another player with +1 STR might need to make a check to do, but do we set an actual theoretical number behind each increment or let a GM decide at their table?

Proposed Resolution

Add sections to the PGF and GM Guide that specify what these Derived and Passive Stats are and how they affect the moment-to-moment gameplay. A character with +2 Detection might not need to make a check in order to receive certain information, and as that stat cap raises we should make sure we add to these sections of what a +4, and even a +6 would mean for characters moving through the world.

What other stats would warrant a Passive?

• Passive Detection
• Passive Knowledge
• Passive Investigation?
• Passive Bluffing?

[CBroz1]

Currently, Attribute serves a 'reactive' function via saves. Should it also represent passives for a given Skill?

The description of 'derived' sounds more like 'real world equivalency'. Currently, 0 is 'average' and +6 is the theoretical max. Deciding what 'super genius' means might mean deciding endgame skill caps

[D-D-2]

We should also consider what the lowest stat can be, globally, and what that means. I saw it was -2 to +6. Why not -6 to +6? Do certain monsters have a +6 in a certain stat and -6 in another? What does that mean for them? If we identify and label the minimum and maximum potential, then it'll be easier for each GM to determine what a +2 vs +3 detection means for them in their game. I don't think it's possible to say with certainty in the PGF what a passive check should grant, but if we give a general scale for each attribute each table can run with it how they like.

[LockerM]

The original conception of negative stat values was around increasing the complexity of the draw rather than a raw negative mod to subtract from a DR. We originally thought that if a player had a -2 in Detection based on a raw number they would never be able to pass a DR 1 or DR 0 check which felt a little brutal.

Instead, the conception of a negative stat is that on a -1 stat/skill value you draw any checks or saves and need a color hit to succeed. On a -2 it requires a suited hit in order to succeed.

I'm not sure if we list this out specifically enough in our docs or if we need to clarify this point, and also if it's worth revisiting now that DR can be negative anyway meaning a character with a -2 to Bluffing has an effective DR of -1 on a base DR 1 check which is within the bounds of the updated system. Also for higher levels where a color or suited hit might be necessary to begin with then the -1 or -2 become less significant (except for the fact that you also draw at the base DR rather than having a mod help widen the DR, so a DR 1 suited check is still incredibly hard).