DemocracyEarth / paper

On self sovereign human identity.
http://democracy.earth
MIT License
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Rules of thumb for designing Electronic Direct Democracy systems #215

Open metamerman opened 6 years ago

metamerman commented 6 years ago

This is an informational post related to the issues raise in the critique:

As was the case for the critique, if you'd like to discuss these issues, I suppose we can do it here, but there are two other forums that might be more appropriate for it: The Metagovernment mailing list: http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org The forums on the Matchism website: http://www.matchism.org/forum/

dsernst commented 6 years ago

There is almost no scientific evidence that a secret ballot is a necessary feature of a direct democracy other than as a marketing feature. If rules 1-3 are followed even the potential benefits of a secret ballot disappear. Because a secret ballot effectively eliminates transparency and the ability to have a verifiable delegation/proxy system, no viable EDD can include any provision for a secret ballot. The need for a secret ballot is this generations "The Earth is flat" or "Disease is caused by bad air": Beliefs that are nearly universally held, yet bereft of actual factual support.

Curious if you have more data to back this up?

metamerman commented 6 years ago

Here's a couple to get you started: http://www.matchism.org/refs/Gerber_2012_SecretBallot.pdf http://www.matchism.org/refs/Gerber_2013_DiscussVoterChoice.pdf

There's also more discussion of this on the Matchism site: http://www.matchism.org/system/

To summarize, Normies not only don't insist on a secret ballot, they don't even believe that we have one now. But again, the real key to understanding this issue and why it's an "earth is flat" belief analog is the transparency issue: Unless you can go in and verify by yourself that your vote was accounted for in the total, nothing else matters because you've already ceded your "sovereignty" to whoever does the final tally (i.e., all this blockchain stuff is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic).

SFSandra commented 6 years ago

The fact that many do not believe their ballot is not secret is demonstrated to have a suppressing effect on voter turnout. https://datasociety.net/output/privacy-security-and-digital-inequality/.

@metamerman can you explain in terms of public and private keys how a voter is giving away sovereignty to whoever does the final tally?

metamerman commented 6 years ago

@SFSandra, sorry, I can't find anything about turnout (or voting at all) in the link you provide or the paper it refers to. Even if it did, I'd consider it evidence that we need a new transparent public decisionmaking process because the problem is that people don't trust the government, not that they don't trust each other. The fact that these are conceptually two distinct things just shows how screwed up our conception of what government is (i.e., it's only supposed to be a way to coordinate implementation of The Will of The People).

As for the sovereignty issue: Are you going to be running your own server that's keeping track of every vote transaction? If so, how much do you think that would cost in CPU time and network bandwidth? Please assume a vote every week with a few billion participants (what I've calculated is what is required to run a local and global-scale government, and what proxyfor.me is designed to accommodate). For reference you might consider the transaction cost for Bitcoin (several dollars and a several minutes of CPU time for each transaction).

If you're not doing, or even capable of doing, your own verification (and for 99.999% of the people that'll be the case), how could you possibly be convinced that your vote is more likely to be counted in this distributed system than in a single (perhaps mirrored) server system with a public vote where you can just go in and verify your vote with any web browser?