A bit confused about the blockchain part...

[fgimenezm]

This is a General Concern

:tophat: Where is the blockchain part implemented (if it is there) and why bitcoin is mentioned everywhere and not other blockchain alternatives?

I see bitcoin mentioned all over the place yet I couldn't find any bitcoin specific code in sovereign. Am I looking on the wrong places? Also, why bitcoin? Bitcoin is an established crypto-currency but for general-purpose blockchain there are better options IMHO (Hyperledger, Ethereum, etc.)

[domi41]

Hello ! Sovereign is based on the blockchain, but not on Bitcoin itself. It is based on smart contracts upon the Ethereum blockchain. The related Solidity code should be published soon.

Bitcoin is mostly used as an example (from what I gather) of a successful decentralized service. If you see confusing examples that make you think that Sovereign is Bitcoin-based, please tell us where ! And welcome to the community !

[fgimenezm]

oh ok, so the blockchain code is not published yet? If that's the case then I'll just wait.

What I found confusing is that while I was looking for the blockchain parts of the code I found some comments mentioning bitcoin, for example: https://github.com/DemocracyEarth/sovereign/blob/master/imports/api/transactions/transaction.js#L337 // TODO all transactions are for VOTE type, develop for BITCOIN or multi-currency conversion.

There are also mentions of the use of bitcoin micropayments for voting in the docs and papers.

Other repos under the same DemocracyEarth github org also relate to the use of bitcoin (although they are pretty old commits so maybe it's just testing stuff).

And the Transactions code kind of indicates that blockchain is not implemented yet https://github.com/DemocracyEarth/sovereign/blob/master/imports/api/transactions/Transactions.js#L8

/* NOTE: These schemas of Ticket & Transaction must store transactions in its own db.
*  (eventually a blockchain via vote-microchain TBD)
*/

[brunoksato]

Not have blockchain you can add a plugin blockchain to the code. Not sure how we can add this plugin and if API has support for that

[torinberger]

This project sounds so cool, keep it up guys

[erotavlasme]

Hi, I would like to open a new issue, but I can post my thoughts here. You would like to be the paladins of democracy and change the rules of the game toward liquid democracy i.e. the real power in the hand of citizens. My concerns are regarding the usage of Bitcoin cryptocurrency that has several important flaws: scalability, energy consumption and centralization. Bitcoin is not scalable and it can support up to 7 transactions per second (tps) that are nothing compared to VISA circuit which is able to reach peak 50k tps with an average of 20k during holiday time. There are many other cryptocurrencies better suited for this purpose as Monero up to 1000 tps, Ripple up to 10k tps, Bitshare up to 100k tps and IOTA infinity tps limited only by the number of the users of the network link. Bitcoin network is used at about 70% Bitcoin and when it will reach 90-95% it will be useless with very high transaction fee (at the moment average 30 $). Bitcoin consumption is crazy, at the moment it consumes like an entire country link. Fortunately, there are several solutions all related to Proof of Stake (PoS) protocol instead of Proof of Work (PoW). Many cryptocurrencies have already using such protocol as Ripple, Bitshare, IOTA, Cardano, NEM and Stellar. Finally, Bitcoin is the most centralized cryptocurrency. The original vision "one CPU, one vote" of Satoshi Nakamoto has been missed. At the moment, few pools control the entire network hashing power link Moreover, the production and the distribution of the ASIC (mining devices) is dominated by one player Bitmain that is well know for abusive behaviour against miners and the network link. These problems have brought to two important hard fork: Bitcoin Cash on August and Bitcoing Gold on November. Other cryptocurrencies that do not use ASIC for mining, but only GPU and CPU are not centralized. Monero is the least centralized cryptocurrency based on mining. In general, not mineable cryptocurrencies are not centralized. In particular, IOTA, ByteBall and many others are not centralized at all since are completely peer to peer. In few words, the centralized validation scheme is not democratic, less resilient and not in line with Satoshi Nakamoto's vision. For Bitcoin, the PoW protocol and the hashing algorithm SHA256 can be changed any time since they are driven by an open source software. However, the centralization of Bitcoin does not allow this and it will be the begin of the end for the most famous and well know cryptocurrency. Bitcoin lifespan is less than 1-2 years without a radical protocol change from PoW to PoS and the correspondent hashing algorithm change. Keep this in mind for your future.

[torinberger]

wow @erotavlas85 that is one of the most interesting things I have ever read, very good point.

[fgimenezm]

I think the most important piece of advise is: you do not need a crypto currency to implement a blockchain based solution. Blockchain != crypto currency

[erotavlasme]

I think the most important piece of advise is: you do not need a crypto currency to implement a blockchain based solution. Blockchain != crypto currency

You are right, the blockchain is a distributed database managed by peer and cryptocurrencies are only an example of application. However, democracy earth is going to adopt Bitcoin as main cryptocurrency (take a look at roadmap here) and this is a big mistake since the blockchain of Bitcoin is the worst in term of technological features.

[brendanjones]

However, democracy earth is going to adopt Bitcoin as main cryptocurrency (take a look at roadmap here) and this is a big mistake since the blockchain of Bitcoin is the worst in term of technological features.

What the fuuuuuck I hadn't noticed this! Thanks for pointing this out @erotavlas85. Democracy Earth people, you need to seriously reconsider this. I want you guys to succeed - please don't use Bitcoin. It's technologically flawed, and morally dubious due to its environmental impact through energy use.

Have a look at what https://github.com/secure-vote / https://github.com/voteflux (the same people) are doing. You guys really should work together (I don't mean merge your efforts, necessarily, just to share ideas for mutual benefit), for the sake of the world.

[0bserve]

hi everyone, is there any news on when development on smart contracts is starting/being published?

[medied]

@0bserve it's already been started as we've been learning and exploring, but it's still at a somewhat early stage. I want to make repo public and welcome PRS very soon

[jnicolau]

Is it coded in solidity? I'd be happy to PR it when available.

[aecc]

@jnicolau it's using solidity. Feel free to contribute: https://github.com/DemocracyEarth/contracts