DoES Liverpool support for replicating the Cambridge Makerspace "Delve" design visors

[ajlennon]

Can we approve supporting the replication of the Cambridge Makerspace model in the Fashion Hub - @amcewen @johnmckerrell @JackiePease et al.

Details from @markmellors here: https://github.com/DoESLiverpool/covid19/issues/11#issuecomment-609998495

(Cambridge Makespace and related volunteers) have now got an NHS approved process for producing Delve design visors, and the all documentation neccessary for their approval. The precautions and documentation should be releveant to all visor designs, we've shared all of it. intro here: https://web.makespace.org/visor, with the docs hosted here: https://web.makespace.org/visor

Its the delve design, no changes to materials or assembly process. only change to what we do to the materials is cleaning them. Oh and we wrap the elastic around the PET so it gets stapled twice, but I don't think that's strictly neccessary. And we put a sticker on them with contact details (PPE regs).

It could be done using only a pair of scissors (plus cleaning materials and PPE), but a laser cutter (for PET) and a bandsaw (for foam cutting) make it quicker but are not at all essential. materials:

25mm wide elastic (preferably latex free, but we couldn't source that so have a sticker on the bag with a warning ~0.2mm PET 25mm self adhesive PU foam two regular staples

• Initially six people on shifts to be manufacturing "Delve" design masks following the approved process and being paid a per-unit amount equivalent to a living wage.
• Morning shift and afternoon shift between 9-5 during the working week
• Fashion Hub have agreed to use their space
• Volunteers can be found quickly
• We commit to paying invoices amounts against produced numbers of PPE Visors 2-3 weeks after receipt of invoice
• This is paid via from the newly incorporated company setup by @mjamjoum
• We fulfil via the existing ordering at a price to be agreed wrt BOM, costs of running the space (heat&light) and a per unit equivalent to the living wage (e.g. £2.20 - very rough guess)

Outstanding

• Materials sourcing

[amcewen]

I'm against this. At the very least until we've got the laser-cutter visor production firing on all cylinders and running smoothly.

[ajlennon]

I am very very strongly in favour of doing this as we need to replicate working models.

A suggestion is scaling back from 6 people to 2 people as a "safe to fail" test run

[markmellors]

Disclaimer: If the NHS are happy to accept what you're currently making then I don't have a preference either way, do what you want, but:

• Is your laser cutter currently in full time use (i.e. the production bottle neck?)
• is it cutting headbands as well as visors?
• do you have material stock to make more?
• could both production methods be run in parrellel or do they share resourse (people or tools)?

One thing I've learnt talking to the NHS, they'd rather keep receiving the same thing, than spend time doing design reviews or agreeing to changes, even if whats on offer is potentially 'better'. If what you're doing is working and a different method only gives a marginal change in 'quality' or quantity, its not worth changing.

[ajlennon]

could both production methods be run in parrellel or do they share resourse (people or tools)?

My belief is that the benefit of this workflow is that it can be spun up entirely in parallel with the existing workflows (3D Printing and Laser cutting) which are limited by machine availability.

We don't need to use any of the team working the 3D printers or the laser cutters for the "Delve" design do we @markmellors ? Or am I on the wrong track here?

[johnmckerrell]

What DoES Liverpool support is needed?

[ajlennon]

@johnmckerrell these are the key needs I think,

• Cover to say this project is related to the PPE effort at DoES Liverpool which lets us reach out for volunteers etc. under that banner on social media and word of mouth (can be done without this but this is preferable)

• Fulfilment orders for this visor through the existing inventory and ordering system @afroleft and Jack are running (makes no sense to setup another different fulfilment operation)

• Commitment to support the payment of an equivalent living wage from the crowd funder funds if necessary. Although In reality payments will be made 2-3 weeks after volunteers invoice and will come from monies received from the sell price of the PPE Visors to the NHS / wider community. It's a cashflow question not a capital investment issue. @mjamjoum

[amcewen]

@markmellors, thanks those are good questions:

Is your laser cutter currently in full time use (i.e. the production bottle neck?)

No.

is it cutting headbands as well as visors?

No, it's cutting headbands, we're cutting visors by hand.

do you have material stock to make more?

All of our materials ordering so far has been geared towards the laser-cut option. We haven't sourced any foam or elastic or staples or...

could both production methods be run in parrellel or do they share resourse (people or tools)?

At present we have two scarce resources for the laser-cutter option: polypropylene and people to do the work. We have two polypropylene orders due imminently - 60 sheets were despatched on Monday; 2000 sheets are due for delivery today. This approach would take resource away from the remaining under-resourced part of production.

Hence my original comment that we should get the laser-cutting approach running well before we embark upon other initiatives :-)

[ajlennon]

This approach would take resource away from the remaining under-resourced part of production.

• There is no shortage of polyprop. This is an order lead time issue not an availability issue. There will be no effect on the laser cutting workflow.
• There are no shortage of people to make PPE without the laser cutter. I can source people. There will be no effect on the laser cutting workflow.

[markmellors]

The delve visor is a rounded rectangle, no holes, no slots. no dimension particularly critical. We're using a laser cutter but its not required at all. It can probably be adapted (different elastic length) to use the exact same visors as you're currently making.

[ajlennon]

Thanks @markmellors

My thinking,

• if we need laser cutters this issue is not achievable and we should concentrate on using the laser cutters for Adrian's accepted design.

• if we don't need laser cutters there is no downside in spinning this up.

[markmellors]

@ajlennon have you read the SOP yet? or preferably, for this question, looked at the delve instructions https://www.delve.com/assets/documents/Open-Source-Face-Shield-Drawing.pdf ? do you need a laser cutter to cut rounded rectangles? I think its not essential.

[ajlennon]

@ajlennon have you read the SOP yet? or preferably, for this question, looked at the delve instructions https://www.delve.com/assets/documents/Open-Source-Face-Shield-Drawing.pdf ? do you need a laser cutter to cut rounded rectangles? I think its not essential.

Yes I see - I also have a guy who has been designing a 3D printable visor template for cutting around which I believe would be ideal for this.

I checked in what he did here but it could be modified easily: https://github.com/DoESLiverpool/covid19/tree/master/visor-designs/visor-templates

[markmellors]

sounds good

[johnmckerrell]

If you were making a template would some laser cut perspex not be quicker/easier? For me I'd cut a frame that you cut inside with a blade.

[ajlennon]

Frame/blade sounds great to me @johnmckerrell.

For me I'm agnostic. My thinking is we need to ensure,

• this is a parallel effort that doesn't detract from the laser cutting workflow already in operation.

• the method is acceptable to the NHS

• we can scale easily to add more people and more locations to make PPE without being limited by lack of laser-cutters etc.

[plastictactics]

I aim to speak to the university of liverpool's PPE project tomorrow, but my understanding is that they have a bottleneck in assembling their visors (modified prusa design). Their design is approved by most local NHS trusts, the premises are very close to the fashion hub, the assembly process is simple, and they have robust process in place to make and ship product. I wasn't going to mention anything until after I'd spoken to them, but it seems like if you're going to spin up an effort like this, there is a fairly simple collaboration that can happen - although it doesn't have the ability to scale like the Delve design unless the university is investing in more 3D printers and laser cutters.

[ajlennon]

@plastictactics excellent news - yes scaleability is the key value with the Delve design. We don't need the machines and we don't need people who are trained to use them. Just people, a space, and materials. [On LU - it seems to be a hybrid design and I haven't seen anything concrete on approvals. Do you have a link to this? For me an optimal solution is (a) no cut (b) laser with (c) hybrid and (d) 3D print a long way behind,]

[mjamjoum]

@ajlennon - I am the happy middleman, not the engineer or the person behind this but I need to flag 2 things:

1 - As discussed we are paying people on a unit basis they produce and this curves into item 2:

2 - My big concern is that @amcewen has created a BoM based on a different design based on this discussion. If it is a different design please make sure we have costed it out before we start. And please share the costing to make sure GBP2.2 is appropriate. We may want to test how the 2 people get on (or even 1) to make sure we understand throughput etc.

Sorry / not sorry - I have to be the annoying finance person, but just have to make sure we are on top of this and we don't bankrupt ourselves and everyone is angry 4 weeks from now, as a lot of people are putting time and money from their own pockets.

[ajlennon]

2 - My big concern is that @amcewen has created a BoM based on a different design based on this discussion. If it is a different design please make sure we have costed it out before we start. And please share the costing to make sure GBP2.2 is appropriate. We may want to test how the 2 people get on (or even 1) to make sure we understand throughput etc.

Understood - £2.20 was a guesstimate. There's a costed BOM here I need to go through. Can you take a look @mjamjoum and advise?

https://github.com/Makespace/visor/blob/master/Materials/BOM.xlsx

[mjamjoum]

Thanks @ajlennon

I am not so sure how we are getting costing for the 2k visors (1k visors seems to make sense - but I need to get closer to the sheet costs, etc). But I think for this we will have to also see throughput.

However if we are selling at GBP1.54, GBP2.2 may be tight. @jackreason85 - let's connect today to make a plan on how we approach the Trusts, etc. to understand the price their paying - I'll send you a note on WhatsApp and we can divide and conquer.

Thank you, Mazen