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ESCOMP / CTSM

Community Terrestrial Systems Model (includes the Community Land Model of CESM)
http://www.cesm.ucar.edu/models/cesm2.0/land/
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SAM-CTSM coupling progress #1212

Open slevis-lmwg opened 3 years ago

slevis-lmwg commented 3 years ago

Mark Branson at CSU is getting SAM-CTSM ready to run with support from @negin513 and @slevisconsulting

slevis-lmwg commented 3 years ago

Today's meeting:

billsacks commented 3 years ago

We discussed git/github. Mark will look into what ScottD and Marat(?) prefer. I suggested creating a repository under Mark’s username for now and moving everything under NCAR (or other institution) later, when SAM-CTSM is ready for release. I am open to starting in NCAR right from the beginning if that makes more sense and @billsacks we could use your feedback on this.

I believe that the NCAR GitHub organization is only meant for NCAR employees. External collaborators can be added to projects, but I feel it would be hard for CSU to manage a repo under the NCAR organization. Options I see are:

mbranson commented 3 years ago

I got a reply from Marat. Regarding setting up my own GitHub repo for SAM-CTSM he said:

It’s fine as long as it is NOT widely open in terms of public access to SAM code. SAM remains to be distributed from one place. It is not a community model (yet).

and with regard to setting up a CONUS case he said this:

I am a bit skeptical as SAM doesn’t have topography. Global SAM does, but GSAM is not ready for public use as it is being still developed and no documentation exists. SAM still doesn’t have open BC, so I mimic them by heavily nudging along the strips of domains along the boundaries (say 10% of width in each direction). But the boundary conditions are profiles only, no dependence on x,y. So, cannot be used for CONUS. Global SAM doesn’t have a need for the lateral boundaries, as it is global. Of course, I could put up a regional version of global SAM, but it would require too much time, which is not justified by unfunded collaboration.

mbranson commented 3 years ago

I have concerns about the additional code modifications needed for SAM for running the CONUS test case that was created for WRF-CTSM. These are in addition to the modifications needed to get SAM linked up with LILAC/CTSM.

I think I can handle the WRF-CTSM code mods, but I just wanted to be sure that this would all fit in the current scope of the LILAC project as well as the timetable of the funding and the deliverables. Perhaps a Zoom meeting with Dave Lawrence and Scott Denning would be appropriate at this point?

slevis-lmwg commented 3 years ago

[...] I just wanted to be sure that this would all fit in the current scope of the LILAC project as well as the timetable of the funding and the deliverables. Perhaps a Zoom meeting with Dave Lawrence and Scott Denning would be appropriate at this point?

@dlawrenncar According to the above update from @mbranson to deliver SAM-CTSM will require more than a coupling exercise and will involve help from Don Dazlich. On our call today @mbranson suggested that SAM-CTSM might work for point simulations if the additional work outlined in his post is not approved.

dlawrenncar commented 3 years ago

I'm happy to discuss on a call if that would be helpful. One immediate question I have is: Are the same issues relevant if SAM, coupled to CTSM via LILAC, is run at global scales?

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 3:55 PM Samuel Levis notifications@github.com wrote:

[...] I just wanted to be sure that this would all fit in the current scope of the LILAC project as well as the timetable of the funding and the deliverables. Perhaps a Zoom meeting with Dave Lawrence and Scott Denning would be appropriate at this point?

@dlawrenncar https://github.com/dlawrenncar According to the above update from @mbranson https://github.com/mbranson to deliver SAM-CTSM will require more than a coupling exercise and will involve help from Don Dazlich. On our call today @mbranson https://github.com/mbranson suggested that SAM-CTSM might work for point simulations if the additional work outlined in his post is not approved.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ESCOMP/CTSM/issues/1212#issuecomment-742114997, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AFABYVDFLBSLZLZ73PEAZELST755NANCNFSM4TSRCBZA .

mbranson commented 3 years ago

I guess the answer to that is “no" as Marat has already created a global version of SAM which has made some successful simulations. However, he doesn’t yet consider it a publicly available model. That may change at some point in the future but we have no idea when that might be.

On Dec 10, 2020, at 9:01 AM, David Lawrence notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

I'm happy to discuss on a call if that would be helpful. One immediate question I have is: Are the same issues relevant if SAM, coupled to CTSM via LILAC, is run at global scales?

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 3:55 PM Samuel Levis notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

[...] I just wanted to be sure that this would all fit in the current scope of the LILAC project as well as the timetable of the funding and the deliverables. Perhaps a Zoom meeting with Dave Lawrence and Scott Denning would be appropriate at this point?

@dlawrenncar https://github.com/dlawrenncar According to the above update from @mbranson https://github.com/mbranson to deliver SAM-CTSM will require more than a coupling exercise and will involve help from Don Dazlich. On our call today @mbranson https://github.com/mbranson suggested that SAM-CTSM might work for point simulations if the additional work outlined in his post is not approved.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ESCOMP/CTSM/issues/1212#issuecomment-742114997, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AFABYVDFLBSLZLZ73PEAZELST755NANCNFSM4TSRCBZA .

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dlawrenncar commented 3 years ago

OK. I guess that I don't really understand how SAM is typically used (or will be used). The goal should clearly be to strive to get something working for the main applications/configurations of SAM, and the question that appears to be in front of us is how difficult that will be and whether the cost is worth it. I guess that is mainly a question that Scott can answer.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 9:16 AM mbranson notifications@github.com wrote:

I guess the answer to that is “no" as Marat has already created a global version of SAM which has made some successful simulations. However, he doesn’t yet consider it a publicly available model. That may change at some point in the future but we have no idea when that might be.

On Dec 10, 2020, at 9:01 AM, David Lawrence <notifications@github.com mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

I'm happy to discuss on a call if that would be helpful. One immediate question I have is: Are the same issues relevant if SAM, coupled to CTSM via LILAC, is run at global scales?

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 3:55 PM Samuel Levis <notifications@github.com mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

[...] I just wanted to be sure that this would all fit in the current scope of the LILAC project as well as the timetable of the funding and the deliverables. Perhaps a Zoom meeting with Dave Lawrence and Scott Denning would be appropriate at this point?

@dlawrenncar https://github.com/dlawrenncar According to the above update from @mbranson < https://github.com/mbranson> to deliver SAM-CTSM will require more than a coupling exercise and will involve help from Don Dazlich. On our call today @mbranson https://github.com/mbranson suggested that SAM-CTSM might work for point simulations if the additional work outlined in his post is not approved.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ESCOMP/CTSM/issues/1212#issuecomment-742114997, or unsubscribe < https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AFABYVDFLBSLZLZ73PEAZELST755NANCNFSM4TSRCBZA>

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mbranson commented 3 years ago

I'm definitely interested in hearing Scott's opinion on this. As for me, I think we should go ahead and proceed with the SAM-CTSM implementation with the hope that we can get the other SAM-specific modifications implemented to run the CONUS case. But even if that doesn't work out we'd still have the ability to run single-point/smaller domain simulations like ARM cases and I feel like there's a lot of utility in having that functionality.

Mark

On Dec 10, 2020, at 9:20 AM, David Lawrence notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

OK. I guess that I don't really understand how SAM is typically used (or will be used). The goal should clearly be to strive to get something working for the main applications/configurations of SAM, and the question that appears to be in front of us is how difficult that will be and whether the cost is worth it. I guess that is mainly a question that Scott can answer.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 9:16 AM mbranson notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

I guess the answer to that is “no" as Marat has already created a global version of SAM which has made some successful simulations. However, he doesn’t yet consider it a publicly available model. That may change at some point in the future but we have no idea when that might be.

On Dec 10, 2020, at 9:01 AM, David Lawrence notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

I'm happy to discuss on a call if that would be helpful. One immediate question I have is: Are the same issues relevant if SAM, coupled to CTSM via LILAC, is run at global scales?

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 3:55 PM Samuel Levis notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

[...] I just wanted to be sure that this would all fit in the current scope of the LILAC project as well as the timetable of the funding and the deliverables. Perhaps a Zoom meeting with Dave Lawrence and Scott Denning would be appropriate at this point?

@dlawrenncar https://github.com/dlawrenncar According to the above update from @mbranson < https://github.com/mbranson> to deliver SAM-CTSM will require more than a coupling exercise and will involve help from Don Dazlich. On our call today @mbranson https://github.com/mbranson suggested that SAM-CTSM might work for point simulations if the additional work outlined in his post is not approved.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ESCOMP/CTSM/issues/1212#issuecomment-742114997, or unsubscribe < https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AFABYVDFLBSLZLZ73PEAZELST755NANCNFSM4TSRCBZA>

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slevis-lmwg commented 3 years ago

Summary from yesterday's meeting with Scott Denning, @mbranson , Don Dazlich, @dlawrenncar , @negin513 , @slevisconsulting

Mark will double check with Dave Randall about this, but the consensus during the meeting was to pursue different atmosphere models (with MPAS and LIS at the top of the list) instead of SAM.

mbranson commented 3 years ago

Yeah, and I talked with Dave Randall about this and they are both fine with this consensus. I have other projects that can cover my funding.

On Dec 18, 2020, at 11:04 AM, Samuel Levis notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

Summary from yesterday's meeting with Scott Denning, @mbransonhttps://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fmbranson&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433045688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Qne2YenGMHCz%2FJve6%2FQ82V4kj5tksC1FJ9sS%2FJj2Zmk%3D&reserved=0 , Don Dazlich, @dlawrenncarhttps://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fdlawrenncar&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433045688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=IgFewFNkx7TsSv3rdY2Of3%2B89uduVRdMPLe2CpmlMD4%3D&reserved=0 , @negin513https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnegin513&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433055681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tw2t7gLS2sjLRQwocBAfHJKyyUKp09qfpLYXcsJICKE%3D&reserved=0 , @slevisconsultinghttps://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fslevisconsulting&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433055681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ApmwTBDYFljosMi2Uz4pEG5ij%2FJYTat6khojz%2FGPO0g%3D&reserved=0

Mark will double check with Dave Randall about this, but the consensus during the meeting was to pursue different atmosphere models (with MPAS and LIS at the top of the list) instead of SAM.

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dlawrenncar commented 3 years ago

Thanks for your efforts Mark. Despite this not working out, I think it was a positive experience for LILAC to go through the process of considering how to integrate with a new model.

On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 8:35 AM mbranson notifications@github.com wrote:

Yeah, and I talked with Dave Randall about this and they are both fine with this consensus. I have other projects that can cover my funding.

On Dec 18, 2020, at 11:04 AM, Samuel Levis <notifications@github.com mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

Summary from yesterday's meeting with Scott Denning, @mbranson< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fmbranson&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433045688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Qne2YenGMHCz%2FJve6%2FQ82V4kj5tksC1FJ9sS%2FJj2Zmk%3D&reserved=0> , Don Dazlich, @dlawrenncar< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fdlawrenncar&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433045688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=IgFewFNkx7TsSv3rdY2Of3%2B89uduVRdMPLe2CpmlMD4%3D&reserved=0> , @negin513< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnegin513&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433055681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tw2t7gLS2sjLRQwocBAfHJKyyUKp09qfpLYXcsJICKE%3D&reserved=0> , @slevisconsulting< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fslevisconsulting&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433055681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ApmwTBDYFljosMi2Uz4pEG5ij%2FJYTat6khojz%2FGPO0g%3D&reserved=0>

Mark will double check with Dave Randall about this, but the consensus during the meeting was to pursue different atmosphere models (with MPAS and LIS at the top of the list) instead of SAM.

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mbranson commented 3 years ago

Thanks, Dave. Sorry it didn’t work out. I was actually excited to implement it, but now I’m glad that the effort can go into MPAS and LIS.

On Dec 22, 2020, at 9:33 AM, David Lawrence notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

Thanks for your efforts Mark. Despite this not working out, I think it was a positive experience for LILAC to go through the process of considering how to integrate with a new model.

On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 8:35 AM mbranson notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

Yeah, and I talked with Dave Randall about this and they are both fine with this consensus. I have other projects that can cover my funding.

On Dec 18, 2020, at 11:04 AM, Samuel Levis notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

Summary from yesterday's meeting with Scott Denning, @mbranson< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fmbranson&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433045688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Qne2YenGMHCz%2FJve6%2FQ82V4kj5tksC1FJ9sS%2FJj2Zmk%3D&reserved=0> , Don Dazlich, @dlawrenncar< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fdlawrenncar&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433045688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=IgFewFNkx7TsSv3rdY2Of3%2B89uduVRdMPLe2CpmlMD4%3D&reserved=0> , @negin513< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnegin513&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433055681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tw2t7gLS2sjLRQwocBAfHJKyyUKp09qfpLYXcsJICKE%3D&reserved=0> , @slevisconsulting< https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fslevisconsulting&data=04%7C01%7CMark.Branson%40ColoState.EDU%7C7621ca6d714749dc326a08d8a37f4cd1%7Cafb58802ff7a4bb1ab21367ff2ecfc8b%7C0%7C0%7C637439114433055681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ApmwTBDYFljosMi2Uz4pEG5ij%2FJYTat6khojz%2FGPO0g%3D&reserved=0>

Mark will double check with Dave Randall about this, but the consensus during the meeting was to pursue different atmosphere models (with MPAS and LIS at the top of the list) instead of SAM.

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