dr-shorthair
commented
3 years ago 350 skos:Concepts, with text definitions, available here: http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform
Open Garybc opened 3 years ago
dr-shorthair
commented
3 years ago 350 skos:Concepts, with text definitions, available here: http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform
lewismc
commented
3 years ago ...are both incomplete and confusing
I'm not sure what complete looks like but I agree with you on confusing. For example the only semi-useful logical axiom associated with soreal:Highland is that it is owl:disjointWith soreal:Lowland. I am no landform expert.... but I know more work needs to be done here.
what is the source for these
No idea...
why don't we see very basic landform concepts
In fairness very basic landform concepts do exist. Maybe they are not the ones you expect though @Garybc ?
Garybc
commented
3 years ago Lewis,
why don't we see very basic landform concepts
In fairness very basic landform concepts do exist. Maybe they are not the ones you expect though
Yes, they are elsewhere is SWEET, but many think them basic landforms so why do we see the list I presented but not these. "What is the organizing principle?" is the question. Gary Berg-Cross Ph.D. Consultant Potomac, MD 240-426-0770
The standard libertarian story is that people have the right to do what they want as long as they don’t hurt anyone else. Now with a pandemic we are told that they have a right of choice (say not to wear a mask or meet as a big group) even if they do hurt other people.
On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:57 PM Lewis John McGibbney < notifications@github.com> wrote:
...are both incomplete and confusing
I'm not sure what complete looks like but I agree with you on confusing. For example the only semi-useful logical axiom associated with soreal:Highland is that it is owl:disjointWith soreal:Lowland. I am no landform expert.... but I know more work needs to be done here.
what is the source for these
No idea...
why don't we see very basic landform concepts
In fairness very basic landform concepts do exist. Maybe they are not the ones you expect though @Garybc https://github.com/Garybc ?
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brandonnodnarb
commented
3 years ago what is the source for these
I don't know but based on what is in the rdf:comment section of previous versions it was Wikipedia and/or whichever textbook(s) were available at JPL at the time.
why don't we see very basic landform concepts like INDEPENDENT/WHOLE LANDFORM OBJECTs
Again, I don't know but my guess is because that wasn't something that was terribly important at the time w.r.t. tagging satellite imagery.
Landforms can be quite important to soil scientists/pedologists. This may be something to bring up at the next soil ontology meeting, or add it to @ktoddbrown's notes.
dr-shorthair
commented
3 years ago Landforms can be quite important to soil scientists/pedologists
Indeed. Which is why http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform are from chapter 5 Landform, by J.G. Speight, in Australian soil and land survey field handbook (3rd edn).
brownag
commented
3 years ago Hey -- I have just been lurking here -- but I have some thoughts on US soil science perspective and some involvement with soil ontology efforts. @brandonnodnarb @ktoddbrown @dylanbeaudette
The US National Soil Survey Handbook is our standard, Part 629 is Soil Survey Field Procedures Glossary Of Landform and Geologic Terms Part A and Part B
In US national cooperative soil survey, we have a hierarchical system for the description of "landform" -- Landscape, Landform, Microfeature, and Anthropogenic Feature.
In our system, having landform as a superclass of landscape only makes sense in the most general sense that they are both Land, e.g. http://sweetontology.net/realmLandform/Landscape. I would consider Landscape to be necessarily larger areas comprised of distinctly defined landforms -- such as those described by @Garybc. In my mind, both of are probably subclass of LandRegion but refer to different levels of detail or map scale.
It would be great to map our definitions, which range from broad to very specific, on to something more generally applicable outside of our soil surveys like SWEET. We do soil surveys all over the world, so we have probably as close to a "complete" system as anyone -- though not perfectly machine-readable at this moment. I'd be interested in seeing where we could potentially link up on this.
I have general scheme for doing the parsing of our US handbook into JSON, see https://github.com/ncss-tech/SoilKnowledgeBase. We have a letter code system for the structure and references of the various definitions-- which might help with locking down an "authoritative" reference or "organizing principle"?
dr-shorthair
commented
3 years ago @brownag Good stuff. As I have also been trying to point out, there are solid resources already available, with some already available as Linked Data. SWEET should consider starting off by encoding these, if only to provide a traceable baseline for future revisions.
Garybc
commented
3 years ago Simon,
Thanks as always to a pointer to relevant work. The link you sent timed out for me (probably poor cycles and wifi on my side) but I did do a search on the repository site with "landorm" and it found this (below). Is this what you were referring to as " solid resources already available"?
NameNotationDescriptionTypesStatus coastal landforms http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/csiro/test_keyword_sample/_unique_id_coastal_landforms unique_id_coastal_landforms Coastal processes refers to the action of natural forces (e.g. eros... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept submitted Dimensions of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_element-dimensions element-dimensions An occurrence of a landform element extends as far as its attribute... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Slope of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_slope slope Always observe and record the slope as precisely as the chosen surv... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Location within the landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_location-within-the-landform-element location-within-the-landform-element A site chosen to represent a landform element will often be placed ... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Landform genesis http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-genesis landform-genesis The two following sections on geomorphological modes and agents ref... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Description of landform pattern http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-descriptions landform-pattern-descriptions The significant kinds of landform pattern in Australia may be descr... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection submitted Width of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_element-dimension-width element-dimension-width horizontal distance between the lateral margins of the element, mea... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept , observable property http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty experimental Glossary of landform elements http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-element-glossary landform-element-glossary The landform element glossary aims to provide an adequate, concise ... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection submitted Glossary of landform patterns http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-glossary landform-pattern-glossary The definitions in this glossary refer explicitly to the attributes... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Description of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-element-descriptions landform-element-descriptions A landform element may be described by the following attributes, as... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Height of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_element-dimension-height element-dimension-height difference in elevation between the upper and lower margins of the ... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept , observable property http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty experimental Length of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_element-dimension-length element-dimension-length horizontal distance between the upper and lower margins of the elem... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept , observable property http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty experimental Included types of landform pattern for Alluvial plain http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-ALP-included-patterns landform-pattern-ALP-included-patterns Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Collections of elements found in specific landform patterns http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-components landform-pattern-components Certain kinds of landform element are typical of a given landform p... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Glossary of landform elements http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_landform-element-glossary landform-element-glossary The landform element glossary aims to provide an adequate, concise ... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection stable Dimensions of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_element-dimensions element-dimensions An occurrence of a landform element extends as far as its attribute... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection stable Description of landform pattern http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-descriptions landform-pattern-descriptions The significant kinds of landform pattern in Australia may be descr... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection stable Width of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_element-dimension-width element-dimension-width horizontal distance between the lateral margins of the element, mea... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept , observable property http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty stable Height of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_element-dimension-height element-dimension-height difference in elevation between the upper and lower margins of the ... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept , observable property http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty stable Length of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_element-dimension-length element-dimension-length horizontal distance between the upper and lower margins of the elem... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept , observable property http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty stable Gary Berg-Cross Ph.D. Consultant Potomac, MD 240-426-0770
On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 8:24 PM Simon Cox notifications@github.com wrote:
@brownag https://github.com/brownag Good stuff. As I have also been trying to point out, there are solid resources already available, with some already available as Linked Data http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform. SWEET should consider starting off by encoding these, if only to provide a traceable baseline for future revisions.
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Garybc
commented
3 years ago I should add, following the links that we get this landform-pattern-glossary ( http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-glossary) with members:
and Entry: Plateau http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/landform-pattern-PLT leads to: definition level to rolling landform pattern of plains, rises or low hills standing above a cliff, scarp or escarpment that extends around a large part of its perimeter. A bounding scarp or cliff landform element may be included or excluded; a bounding escarpment would be an adjacent landform pattern. Typical elements: plain, summit surface, cliff. Common elements: hillcrest, hillslope, drainage depression, rock flat, scarp. Occasional element: stream channel. description level to rolling landform pattern of plains, rises or low hills standing above a cliff, scarp or escarpment that extends around a large part of its perimeter. A bounding scarp or cliff landform element may be included or excluded; a bounding escarpment would be an adjacent landform pattern. Typical elements: plain, summit surface, cliff. Common elements: hillcrest, hillslope, drainage depression, rock flat, scarp. Occasional element: stream channel.
So good material. A question - is there a class hierarchy defined for Landform classes? Gary Berg-Cross Ph.D. Consultant Potomac, MD 240-426-0770
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 11:55 AM Gary Berg-Cross gbergcross@gmail.com wrote:
Simon,
Thanks as always to a pointer to relevant work. The link you sent timed out for me (probably poor cycles and wifi on my side) but I did do a search on the repository site with "landorm" and it found this (below). Is this what you were referring to as " solid resources already available"?
NameNotationDescriptionTypesStatus coastal landforms http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/csiro/test_keyword_sample/_unique_id_coastal_landforms unique_id_coastal_landforms Coastal processes refers to the action of natural forces (e.g. eros... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept submitted Dimensions of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_element-dimensions element-dimensions An occurrence of a landform element extends as far as its attribute... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Slope of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_slope slope Always observe and record the slope as precisely as the chosen surv... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Location within the landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_location-within-the-landform-element location-within-the-landform-element A site chosen to represent a landform element will often be placed ... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Landform genesis http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-genesis landform-genesis The two following sections on geomorphological modes and agents ref... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Description of landform pattern http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-descriptions landform-pattern-descriptions The significant kinds of landform pattern in Australia may be descr... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection submitted Width of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_element-dimension-width element-dimension-width horizontal distance between the lateral margins of the element, mea... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept , observable property http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty experimental Glossary of landform elements http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-element-glossary landform-element-glossary The landform element glossary aims to provide an adequate, concise ... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection submitted Glossary of landform patterns http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-glossary landform-pattern-glossary The definitions in this glossary refer explicitly to the attributes... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Description of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-element-descriptions landform-element-descriptions A landform element may be described by the following attributes, as... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Height of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_element-dimension-height element-dimension-height difference in elevation between the upper and lower margins of the ... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept , observable property http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty experimental Length of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_element-dimension-length element-dimension-length horizontal distance between the upper and lower margins of the elem... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept , observable property http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty experimental Included types of landform pattern for Alluvial plain http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-ALP-included-patterns landform-pattern-ALP-included-patterns Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Collections of elements found in specific landform patterns http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-components landform-pattern-components Certain kinds of landform element are typical of a given landform p... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection experimental Glossary of landform elements http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_landform-element-glossary landform-element-glossary The landform element glossary aims to provide an adequate, concise ... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection stable Dimensions of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_element-dimensions element-dimensions An occurrence of a landform element extends as far as its attribute... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection stable Description of landform pattern http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-descriptions landform-pattern-descriptions The significant kinds of landform pattern in Australia may be descr... Collection http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection stable Width of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_element-dimension-width element-dimension-width horizontal distance between the lateral margins of the element, mea... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept , observable property http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty stable Height of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_element-dimension-height element-dimension-height difference in elevation between the upper and lower margins of the ... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept , observable property http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty stable Length of landform element http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_element-dimension-length element-dimension-length horizontal distance between the upper and lower margins of the elem... Concept http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept , observable property http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty stable Gary Berg-Cross Ph.D. Consultant Potomac, MD 240-426-0770
On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 8:24 PM Simon Cox notifications@github.com wrote:
@brownag https://github.com/brownag Good stuff. As I have also been trying to point out, there are solid resources already available, with some already available as Linked Data http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform. SWEET should consider starting off by encoding these, if only to provide a traceable baseline for future revisions.
— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ESIPFed/sweet/issues/234#issuecomment-761923134, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACIMQITKF5ILIA73ETTTROLS2OEWRANCNFSM4WDFGD7Q .
dr-shorthair
commented
3 years ago @Garybc the arrangement in that Australian resource strictly matches the arrangement in the printed book that is the original source. So there are groupings, but it was not designed as a class hierarchy in the RDFS or OWL sense. Moving to the latter would be a logical next-step in converting this to a genuinely semantic resource. (It is formalized as SKOS Concepts and Collections, so the axiomatization is weak. Nevertheless, the organization is logical - recommend you try unfolding the lists in the tree view.)
Note that there are several different kinds of things in this set. In particular note the distinction between landform-elements and -patterns (the latter are composed of the former).
Garybc
commented
3 years ago Thank you for the clarification. I was aware of your use of SKOS and could see the pattern formation from elements. I agree that we are ready for the next step. A harmonization step.
Gary Berg-Cross Ph.D. Consultant Potomac, MD 240-426-0770
On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 2:37 PM Simon Cox notifications@github.com wrote:
@Garybc https://github.com/Garybc the arrangement in that Australian resource strictly matches the arrangement in the printed book that is the original source. So there are groupings, but it was not designed as a class hierarchy in the RDFS or OWL sense. Moving to the latter would be a logical next-step in converting this to a genuinely semantic resource. (It is formalized as SKOS Concepts and Collections, so the axiomatization is weak. Nevertheless, the organization is logical - recommend you try unfolding the lists in the tree view.)
Note that there are several different kinds of things in this set. In particular note the distinction between landform-elements and -patterns (the latter are composed of the former).
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The classes listed under Landform on the version of SWEET https://sweetontology.net/realmLandform are both incomplete and confusing. I accessed the following which includes very general concepts like Region but hyper specific ones like "central creek crater " what is the source for these and why don't we see very basic landform concepts like INDEPENDENT/WHOLE LANDFORM OBJECTs of ): mountain, hill, plateau, mesa, channel, valley, dune, ridge, spur, cliff, bluff, terrace, bench, escarpment, bench, depression, basin, crater, mine, gap, pass. In SWEET under landform we have in contrast: "Cavity Region central creek crater complex crater continent crater debris basin deflation zone dryland field highland impact basin impact crater lamination land land cover land region land surface landform landscape lowland mare pedestal crater pit crater plain prairie rocky pit floor crater shatter cone spall surface region."