BLU enfeebling spells (Sheep Song, Temporal Shift, Actinic Burst, ect.) should not have a dStat modifier

[Anonyy89]

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Details

Version 30181205_0

tl;dr - BLU enfeebling spells should not be using dstat for magic accuracy. If they are on Eden then information on which spells and which dstat need to be provided so that retail testing can be done to either debunk or solidify the information.

~Testing~

(FYI I mentioning resisting alot in the next section. During testing I counted a "resist" as when the spell completely fails to land on the monster and has no effect at all. Text in game reads "Monster resists the spell.")

I went to Cape Terriggan as 75RDM/37BLU (To have as little pure magic accuracy as possible) and tested the 4 enfeebling BLU spells that were equippable as a /37BLU which were: Sheep Song(sleepga/CHR), Soporific(sleepga2/INT), Chaotic Eye(silence/INT), and Sound Blast (INT down/INT). I suspect that Eden is using the same dstat modifiers for BLU spells as present in the base code for other servers which were open source, which is where I pulled this info from. As a 75RDM/37BLU I was casting Sheep Song with 65+55CHR (119) and the other 3 spells with 61+56INT, on a LVL 65 Hare (Beach Bunny - THF job). I made sure to not have any staves equipped as well as to avoid gear that had pure Macc on it, so that I was sure any and all Macc I had came from my skill+dstat. I did a quick test of about 80-100 casts, and out of all of those I only got resisted 3 times. 1 of the resists came from Sheep Song towards the very end which I honestly believe is more likely due to the monster building a natural resistance (Eg. being hit with the same spell over and over game will cause a mob to start outright resisting more.) What this means is that if BLU enfeebling spells truly do not have a dstat modifier here on Eden, then I was able to reliable land spells on a LVL65 monster with the total magic accuracy (combined skill & dstat) of character no higher than lvl 42. I doubt a LVL 42 RDM could cast 100 enfeebling spells on a LVl 65 monster and only get resisted 3 times.

To further cement the testing, I tried casting the same spells, on the same monsters but this time I was completely naked (no stat bonuses at all, except the small amount present from having the BLU spells equipped.) and out of the first 8 casts I did, 6 of them were fully resisted.

The only variable that I could think of that was counterproductive is that one of my spells I was using, Soporific, is a dark based plant spell. In this test I was using Hares in Cape Terrigan. Hares are beast monsters and are weak against the dark element. This means that Soporific would have a double bonus (monster correlation + elemental) chance of landing on the hares. To sorta counter balance this, I casted Soporific about 10 times against the nearby Lizards (Around the same LVL, Lizard type monster, and no elemental weakness to dark) and it still landed all times. ~Testing~

BLU enfeebling spells (Sheep Song, Temporal Shift, Actinic Burst, ect.) should not have a dStat modifier. Meaning that if I cast "Sheep Song" none of my stats should be adding magic accuracy to the spell. Not MND, INT, or CHR. I believe it is suppose to use pure magic accuracy only.

While I do not have concrete evidence suggesting so, there is an overwhelming amount of "hearsay" that suggest BLU enfeebling spells do not use a dstat modifier. Again that isn't the most credible evidence but I think once its coupled with the fact that there is almost NO evidence or even "hearsay" that suggests that these spells should use dstat, it becomes a much more solid and arguementive case.

One main source is the entire page 401 of the following thread: https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/30626/the-beast-within-a-guide-to-blue-mage/401/#3561928. Seeing as this thread (which is dedicated purely to BLU) was started way back in 2012 by "Prothescar" (who is a very reliable source on BLU things) and has been maintained and updated as recently as a few hours ago. I feel like it is a solid source of information. On the mentioned page is more confirmation from different sources that BLU enfeebling spells do not use a dstat.

Another source is listed on the "Calculating BLU magic damage page" (https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Calculating_Blue_Magic_Damage). This page breaks down, in great detail, information about physical/magical BLU spells that deal damage. The most relevant information here is that it breaks down what Stat(s) each spell uses as well as the formula. At the very bottom of the page "Enfeebling BLU spells" are listed, with no formulas or stats or anything. This leads me to believe that those particular spells (and ones similar to them that arent on the list) use the standard Magic Accuracy formula (https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_Accuracy). Only issue is there are no stats/dstats listed ANYWHERE for those enfeebling spells. In all the time this job has been active in retail, you would think that if these spells used dstat it would have been figured out by now or we would at least have some sort of assumption for their dstats, but instead we have nothing.

This is something that could be easily tested in retail, but because doing so would be incredibly time consuming, I think any testing should be put off until it is determined 100% that enfeebling BLU spells on Eden use dstat, and which stat is used for which spell. Once we have that information retail testing could be started.

I'll include any other sources of evidence I have in the comments as I gather and organize them.

[Anonyy89]

I understand that if everything I posted above is true, that this would mean BLU enfeebling spells are assumed to have a 0 dstat modifier in the Magic Accuracy formula. And if that were the case then those spells would have an extremely hard time landing.

I think the "Magic Hit Rate" page hints at the solution to this (https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_Hit_Rate). Keep in mind that all spells don't have the same magic accuracy, or equivalently, monsters/players have different magic evasions to different spells, even without using barspells. For instance, higher tiers of elemental magic resist less than lower tiers (this is unquantified).

Maybe BLU enfeebling spells have a flat bonus to "not resisting as often". I honestly don't a/the solution to BLU enfeebling spells not having a dstat, I just know that they should not have that modifier.

[59blargedy]

there are some concrete tests that show dstat = macc, the comments after the post linking the tests seem to firmly show that the effect was proven but the link referenced is sadly broken and wayback machine didnt work https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/9144/stun-locking/3/#512937 also two instances of jp testing are linked twice on the first page of the same thread that suggests a relation (but also makes some odd claims) three tests that claim a relation, but 0 tests proving a lack of effect is where we sit at currently. there's numerous mentions of dstat being a part of macc, but i took those as assumptions since players in general associate dstat to macc. i mentally throw those and any lack of mention out the window.

[Anonyy89]

there are some concrete tests that show dstat = macc, the comments after the post linking the tests seem to firmly show that the effect was proven but the link referenced is sadly broken and wayback machine didnt work https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/9144/stun-locking/3/#512937 also two instances of jp testing are linked twice on the first page of the same thread that suggests a relation (but also makes some odd claims) three tests that claim a relation, but 0 tests proving a lack of effect is where we sit at currently. there's numerous mentions of dstat being a part of macc, but i took those as assumptions since players in general associate dstat to macc. i mentally throw those and any lack of mention out the window.

It looks like that entire thread and even the jp testing is all for headbutt. This issue is for BLU enfeebling spells not physical damage spells.

[59blargedy]

the tests are for the enfeebling effect landing, not the physical hit, and are discussing dstat and macc.

[Anonyy89]

the tests are for the enfeebling effect landing, not the physical hit, and are discussing dstat and macc.

This post is for BLU enfeebling spells only. Not physical/magical spells that deal damage. Its not for additional effects either since those sorta play by their own rules lol. Headbutt is a really rare exception of a BLU spell as well, so Im avoiding including it in this post. Just strictly BLU enfeebling spells :)

[Anonyy89]

I understand that if everything I posted above is true, that this would mean BLU enfeebling spells are assumed to have a 0 dstat modifier in the Magic Accuracy formula. And if that were the case then those spells would have an extremely hard time landing.

I think the "Magic Hit Rate" page hints at the solution to this (https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_Hit_Rate). Keep in mind that all spells don't have the same magic accuracy, or equivalently, monsters/players have different magic evasions to different spells, even without using barspells. For instance, higher tiers of elemental magic resist less than lower tiers (this is unquantified).

Maybe BLU enfeebling spells have a flat bonus to "not resisting as often". I honestly don't a/the solution to BLU enfeebling spells not having a dstat, I just know that they should not have that modifier.

To elaborate on this more, assuming BLU enfeebling spells work in the same manner as Ninjutsu, what does Ninjutsu have/use in place for his dstat modifier that keeps it from being constantly resisted despite not having a dstat? Maybe Ninjutsu and BLU enfeebling spells both have a bonus to "Magic Hit Rate".

I really think starting from square 1 and checking if BLU spells are even using a dstat modifier on Eden, and then figuring out which stat is which spell if so, is the best course of action to start with. It would let me and anyone else who may be wondering about this be able to perform tests on retail and answer alot of questions. I think it'll have a big domino effect.

[Steam-arch]

Im pretty sure on eden blu enfeebling spells such as Filamented Hold etc always have MND as a dstat modifier. Maybe im wrong though, propably, 10% sure on the statement now that I question myself.

Maybe easiest to just go on retail, pick 1-3 blu enfeebling spells and check if their macc is affected by MND/CHR/other

[falzum]

A variable to consider in your cape terrigan testing is level correction. You're 10 levels above the mob. That's an incredible boost to magic accuracy right out the gate.

Using melee for example. Every level below the mob you get -4acc, but every level above you get +4.

Thats +40 accuracy just from your level

I dont know exactly the magic accuracy level correction formula but it's definitely influencing your results

[Anonyy89]

A variable to consider in your cape terrigan testing is level correction. You're 10 levels above the mob. That's an incredible boost to magic accuracy right out the gate.

Using melee for example. Every level below the mob you get -4acc, but every level above you get +4.

Thats +40 accuracy just from your level

I dont know exactly the magic accuracy level correction formula but it's definitely influencing your results

I'd have to double check but Im almost certain level correction always works as a penalty to the lower lvl unit in the equation, and never as a bonus to the higher lvl unit. Meaning like just because something is higher lvl than me doesn't mean it gets a bonus to its accuracy to hit me. I just have a penalty to my accuracy to hit it (since Im lower lvl). The higher lvl mob doesn't get an evasion bonus, I get a penalty to accuracy.

Those mobs in Cape Terrigan have a penalty to hit me, I don't have a bonus to hit them.

[Anonyy89]

Im pretty sure on eden blu enfeebling spells such as Filamented Hold etc always have MND as a dstat modifier. Maybe im wrong though, propably, 10% sure on the statement now that I question myself.

Maybe easiest to just go on retail, pick 1-3 blu enfeebling spells and check if their macc is affected by MND/CHR/other

Yeah this is my plan. But before I can do this I have to be certain BLU enfeebling spells on Eden have a dstat modifier and I have to know what stat they use. Once I know that, I can make comparisons in retail and run the same test I did here on Eden and see how the results match up.

Im hoping the quick test I've done is enough to shed some light on this.