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EmeraldSnorlax / manjarno

Why you shouldn't use Manjaro
https://manjarno.snorlax.sh/
BSD 3-Clause "New" or "Revised" License
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Manjaro is for the Experienced, not for Beginner #14

Closed JiaZhangJiaZhangJiaZhangJiaZhang closed 2 years ago

JiaZhangJiaZhangJiaZhangJiaZhang commented 2 years ago

Perhaps an addition that Manjaro isn't for beginner and their beginner-friendly claim is questionable ...

Manjaro claimed and promoted the distro to be beginner-friendly and community-driven. I tried Manjaro last year December because of this. But, I noticed that the distro wasn't beginner-friendly at all. It's for more experienced users. So their claim feels like marketing claim; I didn't notice before that Manjaro is a company though given their org domain :(

Many youtube videos or websites recommend Manjaro as a beginner-friendly distro other than Ubuntu. But, I believe new GNU/Linux users should be strongly warned that Manjaro isn't for newbie; you need to know Linux kernel, how to interface with tty or use live media chroot when the system is unbootable after an update, etc.

For your latest info that Manjaro really isn't for beginner: https://forum.manjaro.org/t/kernel-updates-keep-breaking-nvidia-driver/98548 https://forum.manjaro.org/t/black-screen-of-death-after-update-515-rt-nvidia-drivers/101429/52 https://forum.manjaro.org/t/linux-kernel-5-15-18-2-rt28-manjaro-broke-nvidia-drivers/101549

EmeraldSnorlax commented 2 years ago

eh - i feel like what's already in the article is enough. things that you've mentioned above happen across all distros and isnt an issue inherent to manjaro. i think ive covered most of the manjaro specific ones, but i welcome any specific examples

JiaZhangJiaZhangJiaZhangJiaZhang commented 2 years ago

Oh, I think I didn't explain it well. So what I meant was the false claim from the Manjaro company that Manjaro distro was beginner-friendly when it's not.

We can agree with the statement first: Unless you have a superhuman QA, a rolling-release distro can barely make it as a beginner-friendly distro; you can get system failure on every update with higher probability than the conventional stable version release distro.

This is especially true if a system uses NVIDIA GPU.

But Manjaro company made such a false claim (given their QA is questionable, you also know this): " First paragraph of https://manjaro.org/features/usercases/beginners/ "

Take an example from OpenSUSE, OpenSUSE gives an honest warning about Tumbleweed that it's for the experienced. " https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Tumbleweed At section Who should use openSUSE Leap instead of Tumbleweed? and Who should try Tumbleweed?. "

I switched to Tumbleweed and I've been using it for a while. My impression on Tumbleweed is that Tumbleweed and Manjaro have the exact experience in terms of polished look of the DE as well as the wide-range of application availability as claimed by the Manjaro company https://manjaro.org/features/useful-for-everyone/

On why Manjaro company makes such a false claim, this looks more like the company motive to grab users; Manjaro seems more like a company than a community, in contrast with OpenSUSE that is more to a community than a company. Though, I'm just about 50% confident on this, so probably no need to elaborate on this.

The beginner-friendly claim along with the wide-range of most recently updated applications provided from the official repo (an inherent nature of rolling-distro) make Manjaro the best distro magnet for beginners.

Then the consequence of such false claim is you last conclusion:

Maintaining a distro is commendable, and that alone takes credit. However, I'd rather not have
your time (and others, when Manjaro inevitably breaks, and you need to ask for help) wasted,
trying to figure out the odd quirks and issues that Manjaro causes.

P.S.

I say the pamac AUR problem is also the consequence of many beginner users; they just simply don't understand AUR and I've seen posts where they mistook AUR with Arch Official Repository.

Off-topic, probably good as more evidences for your part QA stability section: https://forum.manjaro.org/t/no-audio-in-voice-google-com-calls-since-recent-package-updates/103506 https://forum.manjaro.org/t/freecad-crashes-when-changing-colors/95804 https://forum.manjaro.org/t/gmic-qt-for-krita-5/98472

EmeraldSnorlax commented 2 years ago

i still think what is already mentioned is sufficient. this seems to hinge on the idea that manjaro is acting like a company trying to increase user share. while some events (e.g. their treasurer, marketing) might imply that, it is not provable that this is the sole reason why. besides, there are plenty of linux distros backed by companies (e.g. canonical, redhat, suse) so it wouldn't be fair to pin this as a manjaro issue

tldr; manjaro is contradictory and misleading, i agree, but i think the article already gets at in a fair way without holding manjaro to a different standard compared to other distros. in particular, see commit https://github.com/EmeraldSnorlax/manjarno/commit/fe7872c1bdf88205534682a8c1104e37ff5cbacb .