Hydrothermal field

[pbuttigieg]

Derived from https://github.com/EnvironmentOntology/envo/issues/887#issuecomment-551172731

Extending the geothermally active field branch. Merging and obsoleting geothermal field.

Adding hydrothermal field

[smrgeoinfo]

Hydrothermal field-- term not found (HTTP 404, maybe I'm too impatient..). I'm curious to see the definition.

[pbuttigieg]

@smrgeoinfo it's in the editor's version, the IRIs won't resolve until released.

My working def is:

A geothermally active field which is host to hydrothermal vents, seeps, or other formations through which geothermally heated liquid is circulated.

[smrgeoinfo]

Hydrothermal field-- a geothermal field where anomalously high temperature aqueous fluids are accessible from the earth's surface, typically forming hot springs, geysers or other features at which anomalously hot water is released at the Earth Surface.

[pbuttigieg]

Hydrothermal field-- a geothermal field where anomalously high temperature aqueous fluids are accessible from the earth's surface, typically forming hot springs, geysers or other features at which anomalously hot water is released at the Earth Surface.

Thanks @smrgeoinfo. Is that from a glossary?

[smrgeoinfo]

I'd suggest that geothermal field only denotes high geothermal gradient making heat available in a near-surface environment. Includes areas that have significant formation water to generate hydrothermal circulation, as well as hot-dry rock.

[smrgeoinfo]

Sorry, not from glossary, just from my experience with national geothermal data system...

[pbuttigieg]

Sorry, not from glossary, just from my experience with national geothermal data system...

Appreciated! do you have an ORCID I can add as a definition xref?

[pbuttigieg]

Some OBO-style definition wordsmithing and planetary agnosticism:

A geothermally active field within which geothermally heated aqueous fluids are discharged from the the surface of a rocky planet.

With a comment:

Hydrothermal activity in such fields often forming hot springs, geysers or other features at which anomalously hot water is released.

[smrgeoinfo]

hate to split hairs, but 'geo'- has connotation of Earth... Also-- 'field' I assume is (must be...) defined elsewhere. It's one of those words with lots of interpretations...

maybe... A region of a planet's surface in which aqueous fluids with anomalously elevated temperatures are discharged. NOTE: Aqueous fluid emissions in such areas are typically through hot springs or geysers.

[pbuttigieg]

hate to split hairs, but 'geo'- has connotation of Earth...

Splitting hairs always welcome in ontological discussions 😄 Indeed it does, but I've heard it being used in statements like "geothermal activity on planet/moon X" before. I think this is the historical Earth-bias.

I'm not averse to having something else in there, but can't find a prefix to thermal that captures rocky astronomical bodies in general. Ideas?

Also-- 'field' I assume is (must be...) defined elsewhere. It's one of those words with lots of interpretations...

Yes, we have field in the most general form we can to accommodate this: "An unbroken expanse (as of ice)"

A region of a planet's surface in which aqueous fluids with anomalously elevated temperatures are discharged. NOTE: Aqueous fluid emissions in such areas are typically through hot springs or geysers.

In the OBO definitional convention, we'd always note the superclass first.

We also avoid terms like "anomalously" as they don't really do any semantic work - is there anything about the anomalous property which we could positively identify? That is, is there something about the temperature these fluids have that makes them behave differently than other heated, but not anomalously heated, fluids? If we can identify that property, we'd have a great definition.

This reference has a cogent presentation to work from. Adding some processes like "basinal fluid interaction, magmatic differentiation and mantle degassing" may be helpful.

General Wiki background here.

Def: A geothermally active field within which aqueous fluids, heated by crustal processes within a rocky astronomical body, are discharged into the field's surroundings. 

Comment: Aqueous fluid emissions in such areas are typically through hot springs or geysers.

[smrgeoinfo]

region == genus (sounds like a close match with obo 'field') differentia == (of a planet surface) AND ( in which aqueous fluids with anomalously elevated temperatures are discharged.).

I agree anomalous is not really actionable-- just dodging a complicated set of criteria, something like that the discharged water has a temperature higher than the ambient surface temperature. How much higher?? Practically speaking, it has to have sufficiently elevated heat content to make it useful for some purpose. Does the heated water have to discharge naturally (springs, geysers...) or just be present. E.g. the Salton Sea Area of SE California....

another take? A field within which aqueous fluids that are heated by natural processes are present.

Doesn't say how much the fluid has to be heated, doesn't require surface discharge-- hot water might be in an aquifer. Saying 'An area' or 'A region' seems to me a lot more consistent with normal language than 'A field'.

[pbuttigieg]

Does the heated water have to discharge naturally (springs, geysers...) or just be present. E.g. the Salton Sea Area of SE California....

Good point

another take? A field within which aqueous fluids that are heated by natural processes are present.

I like this, we can then specify the alternate cases as subclasses

Saying 'An area' or 'A region' seems to me a lot more consistent with normal language than 'A field'.

Maybe, but then we get back into the site/material entity confounding which I'd prefer to avoid

[smrgeoinfo]

Definition(elucidation) of site is not exactly clear: "a three-dimensional immaterial entity that is (partially or wholly) bounded by a material entity or it is a three-dimensional immaterial part thereof." logical redux : an immaterial entity that is bounded by a material entity OR an immaterial part of an immaterial entity.

My mundane understanding would be that a site is a continuant whose identity is established by human convention, and a material entity is a continuant whose identity is established by the material constituents of the entity. A site is defined by some human convention-- e.g the boundary between Germany and France, whereas a material entity is defined by tangible material, e.g. the Empire State Building, or the Escabrosa formation. A water gauge is a material entity (there's an instrument there); a geologists' field station is a site-- unless I was looking for that particular reported lat/long location, there's nothing to identify the site.

The ontology has some entities that are negative spaces (e.g. cave entrance), and these meet the idea of a three-dimensional immaterial entity that is (partially or wholly) bounded by a material entity, but are not the same kind of thing as an observation station (site). An observation site should be different kinds of immaterial entity-- an immaterial part of a material entity defined by some human convention.

From this point of view, a hydrothermal field would be a material entity: any observer who could determine the presence of fluids heated by natural processes could delineate the area. (recognizing of course that this determination is based on measurement procedures and a human interpretation....)

caveat-- I'm an ENVO newbie, what am I missing?