Open JeroonBosch opened 7 months ago
SomeRandomNoobKekeke
commented
7 months ago Actually, the mission becomes: hit them with a nuclear depth charge And if you make abyss deeper (10km like in dynamic europa) then, after eating a nuke, they will sink to 6km, recover and then slowly float up for an hour (only to eat another nuke) Abyss creatures seems to ignore them
ubertpendragon
commented
7 months ago 1. We need to check why AI-controlled vessels are that easily killed. Are bots lacking orders to man the guns? Are there too few gunners? Do they need stronger hulls (do they even have hull upgrades) scaling with difficulty? And then fix that issue
AI used to be somewhat bugged but saw multiple improvements https://github.com/Regalis11/Barotrauma/issues/11273 https://github.com/Regalis11/Barotrauma/issues/11272 https://github.com/Regalis11/Barotrauma/issues/11269
Do pirate ships benefit from hull upgrades?
The biggest offender in PvP would be explosive coilgun ammunition, which shreds through everything in the game (everybody agrees on that point), including structures. Don't be afraid to make it less powerful
2. We need to make the abyss lethal enough to kill the vessels so it doesn't always turn into an abyss diving mission (separate issue)
We had a situation where the pirate sub sunk to the abyss beyond our own sub's crush depth, so we couldn't kill the pirates
Ek-Videogames
commented
6 months ago I think it's mostly some combination of too few gunners & inadequate defensive/support priorities against boarding.
AI has always been very suboptimal if left to it's own without the agency of a player to help optimize their commands and assist in more difficult tasks, so it's not a surprise to anybody that a crew of "only AIs" would perform this poorly.
What AI vessels certainly aren't lacking is their spotting ability, able to shoot at the player submarine from beyond actual sonar range. Though sometimes to their detriment as they can tend to waste ammo trying to shoot coilguns at absurd ranges that the projectiles physically can't reach you due to drag and bullet drop.
AI vessels tend to either get crippled by some large creature, or breached and killed by crawlers/mudraptors. Not sure what to do about the former. For the latter, perhaps an additional security guard not assigned to gunnery instead defending the ship, or allow gunners to more intelligently decide to stop manning the guns and instead begin attacking internal threats if there are no enemies outside and just enemies inside. Or give the other crewmembers somewhat better methods of self defense?
AI enemy crews don't seem to be capable of medical care? I think I've seen AI pirates self tend for basic injuries, but never give treatment to other injured or downed crewmembers. This makes it essentially impossible for the AI crew to recover from a premature monster attack, or initial contact with the player submarine. Maybe different idle priorities for all crew to allow them give assistance to downed crewmembers they find, and/or the addition of a dedicated medical officer.
When on the periscopes and on the helm, AI are pretty much sitting ducks and easy to hit with piercing ammunition or a railgun shell, allowing you to fairly easily 'decapitate' the vessel's ability to fight early on making the rest of the engagement fairly easy as you mop up the remaining non-combat personnel. There's not much you can really do about that though since knowing where the gun & command compartments are is simply a case of meta knowledge. Again maybe an AI medic would help, or have AI run away from the periscopes if they start taking repeated damage and don't have any target to attempt to return fire, or some other logic for self-preservation.
LePiromano
commented
5 months ago Still too easy (unstable 1.2.9.0), so much so that they die to mudraptors before I get to them, they have only default ammunition loaded, bot captains don't know how to outmaneuver any enemy for advantage and bots don't aim for weakspots so when they come around armored enemies they stand no chance. A suggestion would be to make the pirate ships drive monsters away rather than being just another target
ubertpendragon
commented
5 months ago To elaborate:
Pirate "ambushes" like separatistattack1 spawn on top of a potential 2/3 missions which could be monster eliminations. So it's quite likely to end up having pirates and swarms spawn close to eachother, with pirates dying to said swarm.
I'm not even sure pirate gunners are manning the turrets before you trigger them
ubertpendragon
commented
3 months ago Another problem is the inefficient suit locker position on both Humpback and Typhon 2 pirate subs
Bots have to run all the way around the sub and back if they don't want to drown and might die before doing anything. Not having a suit easily available and also having to swim through pressure breaks their AI a bit
ubertpendragon
commented
3 months ago 2 Giant spinelings spawned on top of the pirate sub, sunk it, the crew scrambled for suits and left the guns, then got swarmed by crawlers and everybody died BEFORE the main sub even reached the pirates
ubertpendragon
commented
3 months ago One more video:
Feels like a lot of pirate grievances could be solved by having the enemy sub on autopilot from level end to level start with twice the aggro range.
SomeRandomNoobKekeke
commented
3 months ago MMM, dat vanilla fps
Separatist / Coalition vessels very often are not in any shape to fight back by the time you encounter them. Monsters absolutely destroy them and sink them, often into the very bottom of the abyss.
Once they're at the bottom of the abyss, they're surviving (crush depth does not kill them because the abyss is too shallow) and so the mission becomes a "kill an abyss creature" mission instead (so it's actually worth the reward then, but not in the intended way).