Recommendations around nicknames

[dthaler]

Which of the following is preferred, or are all equally preferred?

1)

1 NAME Mary /Smith/
2 SURN Smith
2 GIVN Mary
2 NICK Polly

2)

1 NAME Mary "Polly" /Smith/
2 SURN Smith
2 GIVN Mary
2 NICK Polly

3)

1 NAME Mary /Smith/
2 SURN Smith
2 GIVN Mary
1 NAME Polly /Smith/
2 SURN Smith
2 GIVN Polly
2 TYPE AKA

The answer affects the Compatibility Report Generator in terms of whether it treats two or more of the above as equivalent or not.

[tychonievich]

Discussed 2022-04-26:

General consensus that 3 is not the same as the other two.

A possible advisory addendum to the next spec patch could be

When a NICK substructure is present, its payload should be included in the NAME superstructure by delimiting it with parentheses like Mary (Polly) /Smith/ or quotes like Mary "Polly" /Smith/ (preferably placed after all given names) but may be omitted.

[tychonievich]

Questions about implementing this:

1. I assume we are not changing the Personal Name datatype: using quotes and parenthesis is just convention, not official syntax. Is that right?

2. The current spec says

   The PERSONAL_NAME_PIECES are provided optionally for systems that cannot operate effectively with less structured information. The Personal Name payload shall be seen as the primary name representation, with name pieces as optional auxiliary information.

   One reading of this is that the NICK cannot have data that is absent from and cannot be derived from the NAME. If that is the case, then the NICK cannot be omitted from the NAME

3. The current spec defines g7:iINDI-NAME as

   Names of individuals are represented in the manner the name is normally spoken

   which suggests that we can't recommend quotes or parentheses unless they are used in the culture of the individual.

I think those three points mean that we want to add something like a note (not normative text) to the g7:NICK description that says something more vague, like

In many cultures it is traditional to present a nickname after all given names and to delimit it with quotation marks or parentheses.

[fisharebest]

with quotation marks or parentheses.

May I suggest using just " characters.

Many applications will want to convert these to local quotation characters for internationalisation purposes. e.g. “”, ‘’, « », „”, etc.

Allowing both means that (a) we have to do two sets of replacement and (b) we lose the ability to use parentheses for something else in the future.

[fisharebest]

after all given names

Where the nickname is a diminutive form of the given name, it is common to write it after the corresponding given name.

1 NAME Stephanie "Steffi" Alice /Smith/

[dthaler]

with quotation marks or parentheses.

May I suggest using just " characters.

After experimentation last week, I completely agree. Parentheses are commonly used for other purposes in genealogical publications, mainly for use of maiden names such as: Mary (Smith) Jones. I have found that people will enter that into GEDCOM files with the maiden name in parenthesis, and it would arguably corrupt data if the maiden name were treated as a nickname instead.

Quotation marks are commonly used in genealogical publications for nicknames, and their use in GEDCOM for nicknames was explicitly specified in the GEDCOM 5.4 specification as Albert pointed out, where it says:

A nickname can now be included on the name line by enclosing it in double quotation marks. ...

NAME-PERSONAL:= {Size=1:120}
[
<TEXT> |
<TEXT> "<NICKNAME>" |
"<NICKNAME>" <TEXT> |
/<TEXT>/ |
<TEXT> /<TEXT>/ |
/<TEXT>/ <TEXT> |
<TEXT> /<TEXT>/ <TEXT>
]

A nickname can be included by enclosing the nickname part in double quotes ("). Examples: William Lee (given name only or surname not known) /Parry/ (surname only) William Lee "Bill" /Parry/

Also I observe that the above example puts the nickname Bill after all given names, not immediately after William.

[tychonievich]

Discussed 2022-05-03 Did not come to a final conclusion, but did note that

1. We cannot restrict the use of quotes or add semantics to them in a patch or minor release. Any prescriptive change would have to wait for 8.0, and a larger name revision is being discussed for that version.
2. While quotes may be appropriate in some cultures, parentheses are more common in other cultures. We identified places where other delimiters or no delimiters were used; situations where nicknames were of varying importance to include in the name; situations where nicknames vary be relationship to the individual or that change over time; etc. We do no immediately see a simple solution to that.

[dthaler]

Discussion 10 MAY 2022:

One reading of this is that the NICK cannot have data that is absent from and cannot be derived from the NAME. If that is the case, then the NICK cannot be omitted from the NAME

Agreement to add a clarifying note but not limit it to NICK