Add something for Dutch "Ondertrouw" (Pre-Marriage announcement)

[mother10]

You can find the complete DUTCH article about this here: https://blogbob.coret.org/2020/01/nederlandse-gedcom-afspraken-ondertrouw.html The article describes advises how to put "ondertrouw" in GEDCOM for different genealogy programs. Because GEDCOM does not have anything, yet, to properly handle it.

It would be helpfull if GEDCOM had a proper TAG or Tag-type for that.

The problem: What is "ondertrouw" (I translated the toppart of the article here)

A marriage announcement is an announcement intended for parishioners and takes place at least twice in the church in the weeks leading up to the wedding. 'Ondertrouw' marks the moment when both partners officially inform the civil registrar of their intention to marry.

The marriage announcement can be mapped to the marriage bann (MARB), but for 'ondertrouw' it is more difficult. GEDCOM also recognizes MARL (marriage license, a license to marry, from an authority), but this is more of a permit (document). There is also the MARC tag within the FAMILY_EVENT_STRUCTURE. This describes the event of drafting a marriage contract. Furthermore, there is the MARS tag within the FAMILY_EVENT_STRUCTURE. This describes an event in the context of marriage where a couple enters into a legal agreement to conclude an agreement between two people considering marriage, at which point they agree to release or modify property rights that would otherwise arise from the marriage.

None of the definitions resemble the Dutch 'ondertrouwen'.

It depends a bit of the city you live in but these are the steps:

Step1: At least 14 days before the wedding date, the couple must officially declare their intention to marry to the civil registrar (municipal official). This can be done in person at the municipality where one of the partners resides or online, depending on the municipality's services. Step 2: You need certain documents when you go in "ondertrouw". Step 3: The announcement period: The intention to marry must be announced publicly. This period is at least 14 days. During this time, the announcement is posted on the municipality’s public announcement board or website. Also checks are done to see if you can get married legally. (age, not married yet, etcetera)

After that you can get married. But you dont get any kind of paper of the "ondertrouw".

So this does not fit in anything the GEDCOM now has.

On the above mentioned site they advise to do it this way:

0 FAM @F1@ 
1 HUSB @I1@ 
1 WIFE @I3@ 
1 EVEN 
2 TYPE ondertrouw 
2 HUSB @I1@ 
2 WIFE @I3@ 
2 DATE 16 JAN 1707
2 PLAC Amersfoort

---

Some other advises on that page from/for Dutch users in the different programs used in the Netherlands:

In family Tree Builder: added as a fact for the family, the tag used is then: MARL

Ancestry Tree Manager:

0 @F33@ FAM
1 HUSB @I68@
1 WIFE @I69@
1 MARR -> huwelijk
2 DATE 4 MAY 1749
2 PLAC Asperen, GL
2 SOUR @S8966@
1 MARL -> ondertrouw
2 DATE 18 APR 1749
2 PLAC Asperen, GL
1 CHIL @I70@
1 CHIL @I71@

So it is put in MARL.

Haza-Data and Humogen: they use MARB

Aldfaer Uses MARL

Centurial: Uses MARL

Rootsmagic 7: User made its own "fact" with the name "Ondertrouw" and it goes in an EVENT.

0 @F531@ FAM 
1 HUSB @I1241@ 
1 WIFE @I242@ 
1 EVEN 
2 TYPE Ondertrouw

PRO-GEN: They use FAM.MARB. Although there was some doubt to use MARL.

Conclusion:

There is no unity in the handling of "ondertrouw" because GEDCOM does not know it.

Now I wonder, as for the different NAME possibilities there now is a general solution proposed with PART and TYPE, would it be possible to have something similar here? There will be more possibilities of "getting married" I am sure.

Any ideas?

[mother10]

Just saw: in Belgium there also exists "ondertrouw".

[Norwegian-Sardines]

Why is MARB more difficult? It does not say! I’m camping with very limited internet.

It sure sounds like a Marruage Bann with a few different rules!

Why not use MARB with a MARB.TYPE of “ondertrouw”?

[Norwegian-Sardines]

At some point in the future we can eliminate MARB, MARL, and ENGA make a new tag called MARP “publicize”, with various MARP.TYPE MARP.KIND ways to make a public declaration.

[mother10]

Marriage Bans are meant to be used in a church, for a church wedding, for other people to give comment ot say its impossible. Ondertrouw is for municipality, as the first obligatory step for a civil marriage.

Yes I was indeed thinking of eliminating the other tags, same as was done for all those Naming tags.

[mother10]

There was already a discussion about KIND for MARR in #448 and #458 So thats why I mentioned this in my first post.

[dthaler]

Discussion during GEDCOM Steering Committee meeting 15 OCT 2024:

• The examples shown (based on the linked blog) appear to be what users put in, rather than what genealogical programs do for built-in support for ondertrouw. Let us know if there are applications that do have programmatic support.
• "marriage notice" appears in GEDCOM X. We think ondertrouw would probably fall under "marriage notice".
• For 7.0, MARB.TYPE and MARL.TYPE and 'EVEN.TYPEcould each be argued to be correct or close enough (see further discussion in #505).EVENis more likely to be preserved by programs that don't keep all event types.MARBorMARL` is more usable by programs that use marriage related events for hinting or display.
• For 7.0, we could add a Technical FAQ question for cases of ambiguity as to which tag is most appropriate, using ondertrouw as an example. In such cases, one should pick an appropriate tag (taking into account considerations like in the previous bullet) and use TYPE. So if one uses MARB then it should have TYPE ondertrouw.