Name Fact - Does it need a date field?

[nilsbrummond]

So this is one thing that has bothered me in my short endeavor into genealogy. Most programs (GEDCOM, FTM201X, etc..) don't have a date field allowed on name facts. This has left me scratching my head since the first time I had to deal with a name change.

If there is a valid reason the Name facts don't have a date field I would love to be enlightened on this.

Otherwise my thoughts on the matter:

Name Type	Name Date Needed
http://gedcomx.org/Name	Optional date for a name change
http://gedcomx.org/BirthName	No - Date implied by birth or christening at birth ?
http://gedcomx.org/DeathName	No - Date implied by death date?
http://gedcomx.org/MarriedName	No - Date implied by marriage date?
http://gedcomx.org/AlsoKnownAs	optional
http://gedcomx.org/MaidenName	No - implied by birth or other name facts?
http://gedcomx.org/Nickname	Optional date
http://gedcomx.org/Adoptive	Optional date
http://gedcomx.org/Formal	?
http://gedcomx.org/Religious	?

[stoicflame]

I'm interested in this discussion, too.

Personally, the case of a name change isn't very convincing to me. If I had to, I could model a "name change" as a fact on a person, but I've yet to hear a really compelling argument for why a name should have a date.

To approach it from another perspective, if date were added to a name, how would the date be documented? What does the date on a name mean? That the person started using the name on this date? That the person stopped using the name on this date? That the name was only used on this date?

Help me out.

[mikkelee]

Presumably a given "Name" fact is attributed with a source which references a date or period. At least that's how I would record it in a hypothetical Gedcom-X supporting application.

[nilsbrummond]

@stoicflame

if date were added to a name, how would the date be documented?

Same as every other date. Add a date field?

What does the date on a name mean? That the person started using the name on this date?

Yes, that is what it would mean to me.

What would dated names add in terms of possibilities?

• Names on timelines
• Smarter search? Filter search based on a name's first usage.
  • Don't search on a woman's married name before marriage, etc...
• Simpler than a Name-Change fact, a Name, (and presumably the SourceReference from the Name to Name-Change?)

[EssyGreen]

What does the date on a name mean?

I totally support a date field for a name and would interpret it as "On/between [date(s)] this person was called this name" ... people do change their names. Many women do this when they marry which is a very common occurrence. Why should GEDCOM assume that a name is not date related?

What does the date on a name mean? That the person started using the name on this date?

There is no difference between this and say the date on a Residence ... It could be a single date - which would often be the case if only one source had been found with this name. It could be a range ... this person was called this name between these dates ... just like this person lived here between these dates.

[daveyse]

@stoicflame For use cases of name changes, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_change

In several countries, such as Sweden and Germany, a man had his name changed when he went into the military, and then chose another name after his discharge. So, he could have three names plus he could change his name once he reached the age of majority.

[joeflint]

I also support an optional date field in the Name Fact. If you know the date a person first started to use a name variant, any records created before that date containing the name variant would probably not be the person in question. Having an explicit date is better than deriving a date based on another fact. For the derived date to be 100% accurate you would have to document every possible condition a name could change over the life of an individual.

I have friend who researches early Norwegian families of farm workers. In the records they were often recorded with names that included the farm the lived on. If they moved to a different farm it changed how the name would be found in the records. Dating these name variants helps her to keep track of people as well as their residence

[stoicflame]

Fair enough. Thanks for everybody's comments. We'll get it added.

[mikkelee]

It seems to me the current model does not have a "generic" http://gedcomx.org/Name type Name Concluion for cases where the name is known, but little about the context in which it was used - is this intentional?

[stoicflame]

It seems to me the current model does not have a "generic" http://gedcomx.org/Name type

The type property is not required. I know it seems to imply that it is in the docs. We need to address that soon because people are getting confused by it. That's at #188.

[stoicflame]

date has been added to name with the change at b995bf7