[Paladin] Crusader strike activates damage seals.

[Cerebov]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Crusader_Strike?oldid=1401308

Crusader strike activates damaging seals - seal of blood, seal of righteousness, but it souldnt.

Easy to notice - buff seal of blood or seal of righteousness and cast Crusader strike. You will see damage from CS and damage from seal.

Crusader Strike only should refresh all judgements on the target(and activate non-damage seals), but it souldnt activate damaging seals.

[theloras]

gonna call bullshit on this - Crusader Strike did in fact proc Seal of Blood back in TBC - that's why it was so much better for Horde Paladins over Alliance

[theloras]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyooXkH6mT8

whenever this Blood Elf Paladin used Crusader Strike on cd - you see a two yellow attacks go off - one from Crusader Strike and one from Seal of Blood

[Cerebov]

Its funny, because in that video u provided, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyooXkH6mT8 , u can clearly see that crusader does not proc sob. Your mistake is understandable, UI is terrible and damage numbers jump all over the screen, but if you watch that closely again you will notice 4-05 crusader strike(or 4-41) without sob proc without autoattacks to mislead you.

Also, heres another old video that was posted a lot here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5YpDd4z7gw. Notice 1-22 crusader didnt proc active SoB.

Also take a look at wowwiki link that clearly says no damaging seals

[dangreenberggit]

The tooltip for Seal of Blood says "all melee attacks" so it's pretty clear that this SoB proc is intended. Wouldn't the tooltip say at the end "Seal of Blood does not affect Crusader Strike attacks"?

I honestly don't see from either video exactly what's going on since the scrolling combat text is a bit dramatic.

As far as the wowwiki page, it doesn't look like we can use it. Their patch updates for Crusader Strike did not even look at whether Crusader Strike procced SoC, so while on their SoC page (http://www.wowwiki.com/Seal_of_Command_(old)) they look at when SoC procced from CS later on, it doesn't look like they were paying much attention for TBC. I was hoping they may have more info on their Seal of Blood page, but there's no indication on there that SoB procs on melee attacks except CS. So unfortunately it doesn't look like we can use Wowwiki as a very persuasive source for this issue.

[wlfbck]

Seems to me Cerebov is right, if you watch the video at a quarter speed it's pretty obvious, especially in the second video. (https://www.youtube.com/html5 switch to html5 to be able to modify speed)

[Cerebov]

About tooltips - Seal of Command tooltip says nothing about Crusader strike, and yet we know that this seal does not proc from it(while it should, if we accept same thing about SoB), therefore tooltips are not always accurate.

Secondly, the videos are fine, quality is crap, but what can you do. Just look for Crusader strike casts WITHOUT autoattacks to mislead you. I have pointed out examples above. Second video is a little better this way without jumping damage numbers.

Thirdly, wowwiki. In my opinion, this is the most trustworthy source, despite things you said. It served well when fixing other bugs, and unless you can find evidence more trustworthy than wowwiki (wowhead comments that recieved big approval during TBC, elitist jerks topics that clearly prove that wowwiki page is lying) you cant really say that its bad without reason.

Also, i dont understand what are you trying to say about wowwiki. As far as i understand you are implying that it just lacks some info. Its true, but it doesnt mean that its lying. (Unless you can find mistakes) Therefore that line about Crusader strike not activating damage seals is true unless you can prove its not.

[Cerebov]

Found another crappy ret video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgNguOcsuhM

Look at 1-17. Active SoB, used Crusader strike, only one yellow attack. (and no autoattack) and 1-52.

And please dont say its too dramatic

[dangreenberggit]

The tooltip for SoC doesn't say "all melee attacks," but the SoB one does. Crusader Strike is a melee attack. Seems pretty straightforward.

As far as Wowiki, I'm not implying anything, I'm just saying it's not reliable because it doesn't look like they were looking at this issue closely (and I explained why that's the case). I haven't seen anything from EJ supporting the unreliable Wowiki sentence.

[Cerebov]

Missing info on wowwiki doesnt mean that present info is false. Also, that page was created during TBC, and people would have noticed barefaced lies because they could have tested it on live that second. (And missing details - they could have been too lazy to fill out the obvious small details)

Now, about melee attacks. Lets take a look at windfury. "Each hit has a 20% chance of granting aditional attack". Why doesnt it proc of Crusader strike? Or Mortal strike? Slam? Hamstring? Hemo? Sinister strike? Blablabla... all the others?They are hits, arent they? Well, thats what -tooltip says-! OR wouldnt the tooltip say at the end "Windfury doesnt affect Mortal strikeCrusader strikeHamstringSlamHemoSinister strike and all others"? Maybe its a bug and we should fix it asap? (Even warrior heroic strike that turns white attack into special attack stops wf from proccing!)

Thing is, they are not usual melee attacks. They are special attacks. Yellow damage ones. Same thing applies to SoB. White attacks activate SoB. Melee attacks. Autoswings, windfury swings, Hand of Justice swings, whatever. Not specials. (exept maybe seal of command swing, not sure why, maybe because it mimics additional attack? Dont understand that twisting stuff at all. Or it could be just exeption)

I would not argue anymore, your arguments seem far-fetched. Calling wowwiki unreliable without any direct proof is too much. Same thing with tooltip.

And you have yet to provide a single direct evidence supporting your point. Let the devs decide.

[wlfbck]

Interesting discussion going on here, but as i said, if you watch the videos (and probably any other video of a ret pala in tbc) at slowmo, you'll see that cerebov is right and no seal is activated on crusader strikes. I don't think anymore than that is needed.

[Cerebov]

Actually, only damage seals are ignored, wisdom and light work fine. Not sure abot justice(prolly works too but nobody uses that crap anyway).

But its much easier to find evidence for those if needed(i think)

Edit. Yep, justice procs of Crusader strike too, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om1pkKkdZVY Look at 0-44

[wlfbck]

Yeah, forgot to write "damaging", my bad^^

[Involve]

Cerebov is definitely right on this part. Crusader Strike never did nor was ever supposed to be able to proc Seals - merely refreshing them.

_Current Situation:_

As of now, Crusader Strike (ID: 35395) is capable of proccing damaging Seals (Namely Seal of Blood (ID: 31892) and Seal of Command (ID: 27170)).

_Desired Situation:_ Crusader Strike should not be capable of proccing damaging Seals. It should however still refresh the duration of the Seal that is currently active on the target.

_Reproduction Guide:_

You will require one client in order to reproduce this issue

Create a Paladin .levelup 69 .gm off .gm visible on .learn 202 (Two-handed Swords) .add 35015 .t orgr .go c dummy .learn 35395 (Crusader Strike) .learn 31892 (Seal of Blood) .max

Equip the sword and cast Seal of Blood. Target a Dummy next to you and cast Crusader Strike at the dummy. Notice that Seal of Blood procs from the Crusader Strike hit.

[mondegoftw]

Cerebov is clearly right here. Roblockster's eferring to tooltips is ridiculous, as Cerebov showed.

To further strengthen the case that wow tooltips aren't unambigious and reliable, SoC tooltip reads "Gives the paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage equal to 70% of normal weapon damage." It doesn't say when. On white hits? Specials? Spells? When getting hit?

Referring to tooltips doesn't work, and Cerebov makes a strong case that SoB shouldn't proc off CS. No idea why devs haven't fixed this yet - they've had well over a year.

[Nick91]

This issue has detailed information as well as a reproduction guide, please label it accordingly.

[lajhar]

Fix confirmed on PTR.

[dangreenberggit]

Would suggest combining this with a fix for #3483 so Feenix doesn't inadvertently make a spec unusable.

Edit: Also, seal is still proccing from Crusader Strike when Seal of Righteousness is active.