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FreeTubeApp / FreeTube

An Open Source YouTube app for privacy
https://freetubeapp.io/
GNU Affero General Public License v3.0
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Japanese translation discussion #714

Closed maboroshin closed 3 years ago

maboroshin commented 3 years ago

The intent of this issue is discussion among translators and transparency to administrators.

Here the contributors discuss the quality of the translations. Because the discussion on Weblate is spread over dozens of pages.

White space notation in number This space is normal in Japanese without it. Some software will include spaces.

Reduced confusion. Which is the date, 10 or 12? There is no problem with the notation of "10month" in Japanese.

The gap between the month and the day brings confusion. Other whitespace may be removed if consistency is an issue.

https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=1fb60d279e730e85#comments

maboroshin commented 3 years ago

Different translations

Color

maboroshin says: The theme is the dominant color. There is no need to bring in the main bace, etc.

Accent colors (Kyotaro says, 強調色) mean that they are emphasized over other colors. But you can choose the color. https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=896e564fa24b7d0c

Primary profile

maboroshin says: "上位" is "superior (in rank), top, ranking", "higher order". It's most appropriate. https://www.japandict.com/%E4%B8%8A%E4%BD%8D "メイン(Main)" doesn't mean higher.

Kyotaro suggest: メイン (main)

https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=a5a7c1cfc841b82e#comments

Pane "Opening" the pane, current UI. Kyotaro say "Excute" the pane. https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=9fdb70a6da3fd14b

Advanced Settings

https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=ca393e6bac7a4e1f

Enjoy (Outdated, Now it doesn't exist.)

maboroshin commented 3 years ago

Inconsistency / Misuse tolerance

Kyotaro misuses the word "の".

A string containing all the "Hide". e.g. https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=3f558288cc96b704

Trying to fix the maboroshin's "の" on the other hand.

https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=82adb27863a1488c#comments

maboroshin commented 3 years ago

White space notation in English word separator

This space is normal in Japanese without it. Some software will include spaces. It's experimental Japanese. In traditional Japanese, that's where the sentences are separated. It can be confusing.

https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=9f26fdcee0041a9f

maboroshin commented 3 years ago

Different from the actual UI

Kyotaro said:

最後に、句読点がない時点で、ラベルです。説明文ではありません。体言止めが適切です。 (translate) There is no punctuation at the end. So it's not a description text. It would be a title label. https://hosted.weblate.org/changes/?string=22777831

His guess of a 260-character title label. But if we look the app we can see that it is an description text. This implies that the actual app is not used. Kyotaro sees only the text and not the application, maybe.

soon in live stream "Soon" in both the original English and the actual UI, but Kyotaro tries to translate to "immediately". https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=b56b3cad0b091ae

toggle

"Toggle Theatre Mode" turns theater mode on and off with a single button. But Kyotaro makes it a one-way : his work : "Into Theatre Mode" https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=be8d8ac157fddf4d https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=01284598bfc9620a

Preferred

Kyotaro mistook "Preferred: priority" for "Preference: selection". https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=9e1b4b6c47110ce0 https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=11e5157a289519d4#comments

About

The original English text is an abbreviation. But Kyotaro changes it to a longer string. https://hosted.weblate.org/changes/?string=19690402

How do I import my subscriptions?

Kyotaro suggest a long string. https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=326bde359812e3ab

maboroshin commented 3 years ago

Color Translation

Accent colors (強調色) mean that they are emphasized over other colors. But you can choose the color. https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=896e564fa24b7d0c

maboroshin commented 3 years ago

Full-width / half-width brackets

Normal Japanese is Full-width. But in software, it's usually half-width characters. Kyotaro reverts to full-width brackets. https://hosted.weblate.org/changes/?string=19690298

maboroshin commented 3 years ago

Smooth Scrolling

Different translations: both have regular translations

https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=65fe6585d9320184

maboroshin commented 3 years ago

I explained about half of it. I'll add more later.

For example, Generally, the "desu-masu" style is used for software. Kyotaro's strange behavior deviates from this. He uses "da-dearu" style in only here. I modified it to "desu-masu" style, and he again reverted to "da-dearu" style. Then Kyotaro himself reverted to the "desu-masu" style. https://hosted.weblate.org/changes/?string=22777831

Details for the example of malicious intent

Kyotaro's 1st translation: ... Invidious サーバーから取得した情報が、再生が許可されていない国の場合に便利です

The 1st translation includes the translation of "Helps". However, it is contrary to the original English text of "videos". He translates it as "information not playable". It needed to be corrected.

Kyotaro's 2nd translation: He stopped using the "desu-masu" style. ... 内部 API で取得した旧形式を使用する。Invidious から取得した情報では再生できないことがある。あなたが現在 FreeTube を実行している国が、再生が許可されていない国の場合

And, The last sentence is broken in the 2nd: あなたが現在 FreeTube を実行している国が、再生が許可されていない国の場合

The sentence is corrupted because the translation for "Helps" does not exist. This would be easily confirmed by machine translation. The "Helps" is completely absent.

"It's a 260-character label, not a description." So Kyotaro said. No, it would be a description. Already explained above: https://github.com/FreeTubeApp/FreeTube/issues/714#issuecomment-715185948

He reverted to broken sentences. And, He then corrects the translation 3 hours later. He reverted to "desu-masu" style. Eventually he changed "Helps" to "Avoid".

Kyotaro's ｆInal translation(April 2021): He reverted relentlessly, but incorporated my corrections. Not "informational," not "desu-masu," not broken sentences. Invidious サーバーから取得する動画が、youtube の視聴制限国に該当して再生できないことがあるので回避します。

He reverted my corrections. After that, he means that he is self-correcting as per my modification. He may notice mistranslations by himself. But elsewhere he does not notice. It remains reverted to his translation, which contained a mistranslation.

What is the problem with his final translation? He translates that the video falls under Youtube's restrictions. In this case, the instance of Indivious falls under restrictions, correct? But he says the video is restricted.

Kyotaro's translation before: The evidence, he says is that the countries running FreeTube are the problem. あなたが現在 FreeTube を実行している国が、再生が許可されていない国の場合

We have seen his aggressive revert. Instances of Invidious are restricted. I'm abandoning such a modification.

GilgusMaximus commented 3 years ago

I'm just gonna link to #673. Most people here do not know Japanese, so moving the discussion to Weblate, if it is not a stylizing issue like mentioned in the linked issue, would be a more useful way to discuss that, as there might be more people who also speak Japanese.

shima-office commented 3 years ago

I hate to hop into this situation,but I want to say one word.

I think if one wants to translate English into Japanese, one should be a native Japanse speaker. The reason is that if one is not a native Japanese speaker, it is difficult for him or her to choose the right word. For instance, "I" in English is translated into various words in Japanese, such as "watashi","watakushi","ore","boku","uchi","wate","atai",and so on. One has to choose the most suitable word from such words. If one use many dictionaries , it is difficult to choose the most suitable word unless one can understand subtle difference among the meaning of those words. I respect Mr. or Ms. maboroshin's effort to translate into Japanse , but weblate is not a learning space but a practical space to localise softwear.

In addition to it , I think when one is to dispute how to translate into Japanese, one should use Japanese.

It is not good manner to delete people’s suggestions. I would suggest to have good time to translate.

PrestonN commented 3 years ago

Please don't make several issues for the same thing. You already made #648 which I'm well aware of, and I'd like all discussions for translation problems to be in #673 so that they don't muddy up discussions about issues that I can properly address.

I'm aware that there's a problem going on about the Japanese translations and I'll be getting on Weblate later today to figure out what to do about the issue.

maboroshin commented 3 years ago

@shima-office : Thanks for your comment. But I'm native Japanese. You say this is the sense of the Japanese choice. However, Kyotaro is making the wrong choice of words without actually using this app. It means that Kyotaro continues to revert to low quality mistranslations.

Are you Kyotaro? Two opinions are the same as kyotaro's. 1) Please use Japanese. 2) Don't delete the suggestions.

@PrestonN : At weblate, we comment on each string. So the discussion will be scattered.

I want to use this place for the purpose of summarizing the weblate discussion.

For example, a single translation rule will change several weblate strings.But we can only comment on a single string on the weblate.

maboroshin commented 1 year ago

I haven't seen Weblate in a long time.

For non-Japanese speakers. You can use the following highly accurate machine translation sites (Accuracy around 70%.): https://www.deepl.com/

One of Kyotaro's mis-translation that lasted for two years has been corrected. ( About "Toggle" :https://github.com/FreeTubeApp/FreeTube/issues/714#issuecomment-715185948) The new translator ntsboiuekjv has reverted to my translation. His opinion is similar to mine. His comment:

切替 (toggle) can mean to switch in either direction, as opposed to 変更 (Change) https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=be8d8ac157fddf4d の切替 (toggle of...) allows ambiguity for switching "to" or "from" dev tools, as opposed to に切替 which is only switching "to" https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=01284598bfc9620a#comments

In addition to the 2020 issue above, There are more new problems.

Strange

There are probably others.

maboroshin commented 1 year ago

Other translator (JapanAnon) have left strange machine-translated style Japanese. No one will correct it. : e.g. "All play list exisported into success. "(Include miss-spell) "全ての再生リストは成功にエキスポートされました" https://hosted.weblate.org/translate/free-tube/translations/ja/?checksum=01ffa07626d5e6c6

Another translator (peepopoggers) has broken Japanese. Some of these have been corrected.

absidue commented 1 year ago

@maboroshin As discussed previously, we can't do anything to stop specific people translating. If there are issues with translations please either fix them yourself or talk directly to the people that made the changes. Mentioning stuff here, where none of the other japanese translators will see it, won't change anything.

maboroshin commented 1 year ago

@absidue It is important to share the problem with the authority's administrator. The problem is that it is ongoing.

Two years ago Kyotaro erased dozens of my translations. Kyotaro will not even participate in the discussion here. Authorized administrators will not respond. So, I have stopped editing Weblate for FreeTube.

absidue commented 1 year ago

There is nothing we can do from our side. Please complain to weblate directly, not us. We can't fix the problem from our side.

maboroshin commented 1 year ago

@absidue Please goto https://github.com/FreeTubeApp/FreeTube/issues/648

I would like to use this issue for translation discussions.

absidue commented 1 year ago

Preston already told you there that the only potential solutions will hurt all other languages, so they are not good solutions.

You need to contact weblate and ask them to implement better moderation features.

maboroshin commented 1 year ago

@absidue Please stop change the title. Participation in the discussion is invited. I do not exclude discussion. Please see GitHub Community Guidelines.

absidue commented 1 year ago

Talking about guidelines, you've clearly not read our contributing guidelines:

Do not include non-free software or modules with your code.

We will not be switching to closed source proprietary translation platforms.

maboroshin commented 1 year ago

@absidue I recommend here for discussions other than translation quality. : https://github.com/FreeTubeApp/FreeTube/issues/648#issuecomment-1286845737

maboroshin commented 1 year ago

Kyotaro Iijima continues his unserious translation work. He still be translating without seeing the software. He has translated "Toggle" (Switch) to "Into" (One way) before (https://github.com/FreeTubeApp/FreeTube/issues/714#issuecomment-1286209342). Other mistranslations remain intact. "soon" into "immediately". "Preferred API" (API priority) into "Preference API" (select API).

"System Default" into "Initial setting", "Toggle Theatre Mode" into "Change size".(https://github.com/FreeTubeApp/FreeTube/issues/714#issuecomment-1286209342)

Now, PlayList splits into PlayList and VideoList, which view locate very close together.

Kyotaro assigns different Japanese words to the same term. There is no consistency. This has been ongoing since the beginning.

In other words, "Search in Playlist" in the image below is "Search in Videolist" in Japanese. image

There are others.

maboroshin commented 1 year ago

@PrestonN Don't Close ongoing issues.

maboroshin commented 1 year ago

Many mistranslations remain.

"Please read the room rules" is split into two sentences. There is evidence that Kyotaro has not seen the actual app UI. The same is true for this text. The 2 year old translation has not yet been corrected. Kyotaro translates this separately.

Kyotaro will not have seen the app's UI for over two years. Other two sentences are a similar trend. It is at the level of poor quality machine translation.

image

The new translation string is also a mistranslation.

It's a complete misinterpretation.

A search with blanks will return results with no blanks. Because, In natural Japanese, there is no need for a space here. It has not been corrected for a long time.