Update coords documentation re. id for donated transcriptions from external bodies / individuals

[Captainkirkdawson]

Same coordinators and managers can create a userid. What should be the entry for the Open data agreement. To be consistent must it be accepted. If so the manager is "committing:" the transcriber. Is this appropriate?

[Sherlock21]

Surely no one should be able to "commit" a Transcriber to a different consent to that which the Transcriber indicated was their choice/decision - perhaps in a covering email?

[Captainkirkdawson]

This applies when the transcriber has not registered themselves but when someone has created a userid on behalf of a person. Not frequent BUT it is there as an action. Perhaps the only option to be permitted in the creation is "unknown" and then the person can accept on login

[edickens]

There are two reasons why a SC would want to set up a UserID on behalf of a transcriber.

1. The transcriber does not want to upload files, does not have the means to do this, or the transcriptions have been donated. This system allows the transcriber's transcription to be identified and any restrictions registered. So the "Upload by SC" should be set and the Transcriber Agreement can be "Not agreed".
2. The transcriber is having problems setting up their UserID. After setting it up, the SC needs to send a "Password Reset" so that the transcriber can set their own password. So it needs to be "Not agreed" until the transcriber sets their password and agrees to the agreement.

Those are the only reasons I can think of.

[Sherlock21]

I was having second thoughts about my first comment above..... Maybe registering for another person should not be allowed !

If the Volunteer can't create their own UserId, [which is why someone else is doing it for them] then are they going to also get the CC / SC to upload all their files for them? So that Member will never get to log on, and so will not get to the point Kirk suggests above - i.e. tick the appropriate Consent boxes.

Seems to me that as this is quite a significant Legal action, [ declaring their Transcriptions Open or Not ] then perhaps you can't let another person do it on their behalf at all?

And that brings me to question: in the normal case, how would you demonstrate that the Member had infact actually filled in his own Volunteer Agreement Form? is their Computer machine ID saved in the form?

[edickens]

Here is an example of where the SC has created UserIDs for transcribers.

These are all past transcribers whose work was uploaded by the SC but has now been divided into separate UserIDs so that the transcriber is identified.

[Captainkirkdawson]

I do not know what "Not Agreed" means. We defined Accepted. Declined. Unknown. Requested.

[SteveBiggs]

I think EricD means "Unknown".

[SteveBiggs]

If the coordinator creates the ID for Eric's reason 1, they need to get the agreement of the transcriber before accepting the transcribers agreement. This could be done by sending the agreement by email and if the transcriber accepts, then the coord can set it accordingly. COMMENT BY KIRK. DO WE REQUIRE THE ABILITY TO UPLOAD A HOLD A COPY OF A DOCUMENT IN THE USERID_DETAILS DOCUMENT?

[PatReynolds]

Reason 1 is actually two reasons: The transcriber does not want to upload files, or does not have the means to do this. Existing transcriber: create ID, mark 'not yet decided' as the Transcription Agreement. Make sure you have added an email or postal address so we can contact this person. KIRK. NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AS PART OF #843 New transcriber: no need to create - this person should be asked to sign up as all others do. They can then share their ID with the person who is doing the work for them. KIRK; THIS IS NEW POLICY AND NEEDS TO BE DOCUMENTED AS PART OF #842 or the transcriptions have been donated. We are only accepting open transcriptions, so default is Open. If there are continuing donations from a source which has not yet been consulted, please let me know so that I can consult them. KIRK SO CREATE USERID IS ONLY FOR DONATED TRANSCRIPTIONS (INCLUDING HISTORICAL CONTRIBUTIONS?), HENCE DEFAULT IS ACCEPTED

[PatReynolds]

How we can demonstrate that the person who applied to be a volunteer was the person they said they were. Difficult. The best I think we can do is to re-iterate what they have signed up for in the welcome email.

On 6 April 2017 at 18:53, Sherlock21 notifications@github.com wrote:

I was having second thoughts about my first comment above..... Maybe registering for another person should not be allowed !

If the Volunteer can't create their own UserId, [which is why someone else is doing it for them] then are they going to also get the CC / SC to upload all their files for them? So that Member will never get to log on, and so will not get to the point Kirk suggests above - i.e. tick the appropriate Consent boxes.

Seems to me that as this is quite a significant Legal action, [ declaring their Transcriptions Open or Not ] then perhaps you can't let another person do it on their behalf at all?

And that brings me to question: in the normal case, how would you demonstrate that the Member had infact actually filled in his own Volunteer Agreement Form? is their Computer machine ID saved in the form?

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/FreeUKGen/MyopicVicar/issues/1177#issuecomment-292255121, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AGC5ButnOsb2ibjUXFrmGgRQRUbyPna0ks5rtSZ8gaJpZM4M133B .

-- - -

Dr Pat Reynolds Executive Director Free UK Genealogy http://www.freeukgenealogy.org.uk/ A Charitable Incorporated Organisation registered in England and Wales, number 1167484 VAT registration: 233 0105 70

​+44 ​1723 362616 ​ +44 7943 145387 Westwood House,Westwood, Scarborough YO11 2JD, UK

[PatReynolds]

We will need to commit a few people manually - I have emails from some I've contacted expressing that the want to sign, or do not, but do not want to be contacted again. I expect this will continue for some time, but is not likely to be many. Probably best done by one of the management team of FreeREG or the support team.

On 6 April 2017 at 18:21, Sherlock21 notifications@github.com wrote:

Surely no one should be able to "commit" a Transcriber to a different consent to that which the Transcriber indicated was their choice/decision - perhaps in a covering email?

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/FreeUKGen/MyopicVicar/issues/1177#issuecomment-292245496, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AGC5BkTsqyAX75YlKrr9dwj0GVbJ1Ec0ks5rtR8sgaJpZM4M133B .

-- - -

Dr Pat Reynolds Executive Director Free UK Genealogy http://www.freeukgenealogy.org.uk/ A Charitable Incorporated Organisation registered in England and Wales, number 1167484 VAT registration: 233 0105 70

​+44 ​1723 362616 ​ +44 7943 145387 Westwood House,Westwood, Scarborough YO11 2JD, UK

[edickens]

Have we defined what the resulting actions are for the different options? For example, if we set "Unknown", will this stop their transcriptions from being used for any purpose? I seem to remember this being discussed a year ago, but cannot find the answer. Perhaps it needs to be restated as we have now had more discussion on the subject.

[SteveBiggs]

If someone has "not yet decided" then their data stays as it is now - available on FR, but not open data for any other use.

[SteveBiggs]

The bigger question is what is the consequence of them declining the agreement? Their data obviously remains as it is now, but can they continue transcribing? Is there any time limit that they can continue for?

[Sherlock21]

Not Agreed obviously means Everything except Accepted.

[Sherlock21]

Replying to Eric D's point above: Open Data Status can only apply to the positively supported sign on as such, by the person concerned.

And to Steve's comment 2 above here, That point and its answer is clearly critical. Obviously some of you have had other discussions outside of this Item. So please share.

[Sherlock21]

IF all those present Contributors who chose any of the options other than Accepted to be OpenData, are prevented from uploading anything else, or revising present files, then I predict that most will remove all their present files. Simple as that, then that will solve all the difficult programming too.

[suffolkroots]

Steve Biggs wrote "The bigger question is what is the consequence of them declining the agreement? Their data obviously remains as it is now, but can they continue transcribing? Is there any time limit that they can continue for?"

Also how would it affect executive,management, CC or SC etc should they decline?

[Captainkirkdawson]

Can I PLEASE request we stay on topic. This story relates solely to the situation of a Coordinator/Manager using the create action to create a userid. Most of the recent postings relate to other stories where answers to the points being raised already exist. Volunteer Agreement Sign up (new transcribers) #842 Volunteer Agreement Sign up (existing transcribers) #843

[Sherlock21]

I completely agree with you, Kirk.

BUT you cannot resolve your problem in isolation You need the basic rules, issues and options resolved and written down first, in order that you can then work out whist to do and how to do it. - Surely? _

[Captainkirkdawson]

Agree one cannot do things in isolation but when we have 4 other stories that layout the basic rules we should debate those rules if further debate is needed in those stories. This story is a special situation that has not been addressed.

[Sherlock21]

I agree with you,kirk. I had not remembered having come to a conclusion of the general rules under the 800's ref numbers so (wrongly) thought this was the continuance.

[Captainkirkdawson]

@PatReynolds wrote Documentation: If there is an existing transcriber without an ID: a CC can create ID, mark 'unknown' as the Transcription Agreement. Make sure you have added an email or postal address so we can contact this person. @PatReynolds also wrote If a new transcriber does not wish to do their own uploads for whatever reason, they still need to sign up and create an ID as other transcribers do. They can then share their ID with the person who is doing the work for them.

The conclusion appears to be that the Create Userid is not to be used for new transcribers. It can be used to create userids for existing transcribers and the agreement entered as unknown. It can also be used for new donations of transcriptions with whatever agreement was provided by the donator.

[Captainkirkdawson]

In the creation permit selection of the selection from the options for the agreement. Add additional comments on the page saying The creation of a userid is only to be used for donated transcriptions so that we may acknowledge the contribution and to indicate the extent to which the contribution is open. New transcribers must personally register. Userids can be created for existing and previous transcribers with an agreement status of unknown if it is impossible for them to register.

[PatReynolds]

Documentation: when an external body or individual donates transcriptions, an ID for that body/individual should be created, and open/closed status of the transcriptions recorded.

[PatReynolds]

Draft document (google doc of new page in Information for Coordinator's section) shared with @AlOneill for review / improvement / proper English 10/11/2017

[PatReynolds]

Thanks, Alison - added a couple of words, but otherwise took your suggestions. Is it @Sherlock21 who would talk with potential donors about file formats and the like?

[Sherlock21]

Yes and no.

Any batch file that is generated via WinReg, or run through Winreg by the donator or by the CC of the County concerned, will be in the right format automatically won't it?

Any other source needs defining as to what FR will accept. And if not in standard FR Spreadsheet format for the type of record concerned, then who in that County's team can/will rewrite the date to fit the Spreadsheet standard?

If on the other hand you are referring to the donated files being created on a Mac, then that detail is already in the Notes for Transcribers, written by Alison isn't it?

[PatReynolds]

The donor may have used different conventions to us, so might (for example) have used a character that is problematic. Or entered dates in a format we can't use. They might be using a relational database, and need to output to a file we can ingest (possibly with columns in the correct order?).

On 16 Nov 2017 5:17 pm, "Sherlock21" notifications@github.com wrote:

Yes and no.

Any batch file that is generated via WinReg, or run through Winreg by the donator or by the CC of the County concerned, will be in the right format automatically won't it?

Any other source needs defining as to what FR will accept. And if not in standard FR Spreadsheet format for the type of record concerned, then who in that County's team can/will rewrite the date to fit the Spreadsheet standard?

If on the other hand you are referring to the donated files being created on a Mac, then that detail is already in the Notes for Transcribers, written by Alison isn't it?

— You are receiving this because you were assigned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/FreeUKGen/MyopicVicar/issues/1177#issuecomment-344993976, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AGC5Bq3RJS6BG8sfAiPxZrhwOFCs15TJks5s3G4WgaJpZM4M133B .

[Sherlock21]

Pat Reynolds replied today with:

"The donor may have used different conventions to us, so might (for example) have used a character that is problematic. Or entered dates in a format we can't use. They might be using a relational database, and need to output to a file we can ingest (possibly with columns in the correct order?)."

This begs the question: what is the policy for FR accepting any donated files? and where is it written up?

This item must therefore be related to the issue of Volunteers and their Agreement with FR - since in that story every file must have an owner. Until this point is agreed, and spelled out in the Policy Document, there is no way forward in my view

[PatReynolds]

We are trying to write the policy here, @Sherlock21 I would be grateful if you, or anyone, knows what the policy is in any area would let me know (e.g. what file formats are accepted, do we accept only partial transcriptions - e.g. marriages without witnesses - anything that would make us say 'no', or which we would ask for changes before accepting. On the 'owner' question, the issue answer is the same as for an inactive transcriber (which I think we have sorted, but now I'm worried we have not!)

[edickens]

We accept any format. Even when we just have permission to use what is on a website which we can skim. Partial transcriptions, such as just name and date, or the first few pages of a register are OK. But "Extracts" are not of much use. People extract their families and so are really only of use to them. It means that when we do get the full register, we have to do them again. Most donated transcriptions can be converted by formulae and Excel manipulation so do not need to be transcribed again. Excel, Word, Text, PDF are best, but photographic images, although accepted, have to be transcribed again.

[PatReynolds]

Thanks, Eric, shall I put that into the document for Coords, or is there some other place better? Or does the coord need to check with someone before accepting, so that that person can check that the potential donation meets the criteria?

[Sherlock21]

I agree with Eric D about the TEXT of what we could accept - or reject in the case of extracts - But the issue of who is the Owner of the batch as applied in Fr Agreement terms still remains. Can we realistically expect the actual owner to sign an FR Agreement and all that goes with it? I think not. But can we expect the person who " FR_izes" the donated data and converts it as necessary into an uploaded Batch, to accept that the data is (a) correct and sound and (b) is free of any Copyright in the first place? since the Volunteer has no me ants of knowing where the Donation actually originated.

I think NOT . so this brings me to the conclusion that donations can't be accepted unless you relieve the FR Volunteer of the Agreement terms.

[PatReynolds]

We are expecting anyone donating transcriptions to do so under a licence such as ODbl 1.0. The 'volunteer' doing conversion work should not be asked to do conversion before formal acceptance of the data (not just with the license, but also check that it correct and sound, not made in breach of any terms or conditions, also if there are specific other conditions such as number of years before the transcriptions can be made public). The person accepting the transcription should, therefore, I think, be a County Coord or someone with a specific remit (or a bit of both, if some Coords are happy to do this but others aren't). The owner: the owner is as for an inactive transcriber. E.g. Jo Bloggs was a transcriber, her records are now managed by her Coord Jim Black. I am not sure whether the 'owner' = manager, and therefore it is Jim, or = 'rights holder' and therefore is Jo. In the case of (say) The Wolds Family History Project, if 'owner'=manager, it is Jim, and if 'owner'=rights holder, it is the WFHP.

[Sherlock21]

OK

So where does it say this please, anywhere that the donor has access to. and where it the document that such a Donator is being required to endorse to confirm the situation is ay you say please?

[edickens]

My understanding from Tim Padfield's book is that copyright lies with the transcriber, unless they have entered into some other agreement. So if someone offers THEIR transcription, and gives us permission to use it, that is all we need. If they have made the transcription when they should not have done, that is their problem.

[Sherlock21]

reply to Eric D's comment above:

Yes I agree - in part.

BUT if that donated transcription is in a style that needs a lot of formatting changes, and data adjustment - i.e. there are perhaps extra fields that we can't use and need to remove, or the fields are in the wrong format or whatever, then someone ( the CC in Pat's plan) needs to re do the document. and depending on how much re do there is, that person could be considered to have the Copyright in the version actually uploaded according to Collective Commons licence types. And this is for the 'Going Forward' state . what about the existing state: transcriptions brought in from F1? What about all the images obtained by FreeReg from Family Search ( or the LDS in the original days) the CC will not accept the back dated liability that the Copyright issue is not begin breached here I am sure.

And in none of these cases, do you have any sort of Agreement or undertaking from the original Transcriber do you.

[suffolkroots]

Sherlock21 said----> the CC will not accept the back dated liability that the Copyright issue is not begin breached here I am sure >

No member of FreeREG should be expected to accept liability for anything uploaded prior to signing the Agreement.

[SteveBiggs]

EricD wrote: "My understanding from Tim Padfield's book is that copyright lies with the transcriber, unless they have entered into some other agreement. So if someone offers THEIR transcription, and gives us permission to use it, that is all we need. If they have made the transcription when they should not have done, that is their problem."

This is certainly how we have operated in the past. We have accepted the fact that the owner (donor) of the transcription (whether through transcribing it themself or by purchasing it), gives us their permission to use the transcription, as sufficient sanction to allow us to to do so.

It sounds from what Pat is saying that this will change moving forward and the donor will need to donate under a licence such as ODbl 1.0 - presumably by signing it?

[edickens]

EricB is correct. Tim Padfield says that if you make significant changes to a document, and by doing so have added skill to it, then this version is your copyright.

[Sherlock21]

Thank you, EricD

The act of accepting someone else's Transcription and uploading it into FR seems to me to be frought with issues and so should we continue to accept such files?

[SteveBiggs]

I think it depends largely on whose transcription it is. If it is from an established FHS, then it is likely to be of good quality, whereas an inexperienced individual might be likely to have more errors/omissions.

[Sherlock21]

Indeed. In Past terms, I would have no problem editing any donated Transcriptions and uploading them to FR. But I would not go anywhere near them under your proposed Agreement terms. Collective Commons varieties of Licences and Copyright and Open Licence area minefield. And FR's policy of accept no responsibility at all for anything, and hive it off to the Uploader says it all.

[PatReynolds]

Keep permissions in the header (note from Eric D). Need to decide who the Coord can turn to if in doubt for advice/to make decision.

[PatReynolds]

Second draft of Acquiring Data sent to @AlOneill for turning into English. Two versions now, one specifically for Coords, incorporating discussion above, and one for volunteers in general.

[PatReynolds]

@patreynolds to send definitions of 'management' to development team to ask which should be used. [Find question already asked, and answered] All resolved now EXCEPT is header correct location? @SteveBiggs can you advise?

[SteveBiggs]

Yes, I think the header is the correct location.

[PatReynolds]

Thanks, Steve. Can you add the new text to the advice to coords, please, @AlOneill

[AlOneill]

Coordinator advice updated here: https://www.freereg.org.uk/cms/information-for-coordinators#acquiringData

Transcriber advice updated here: https://www.freereg.org.uk/cms/information-for-transcribers#acquiringData