Open skoria opened 7 years ago
fosterlynn
commented
7 years ago @skoria helpful to have the detail. Do you have thoughts about how to chat about it?
And a question: What would happen as a result of people logging this work? Is there payment or income of some kind, and if so how does it work?
skoria
commented
7 years ago yes, we would get paid for the time spent for example assisting members with freedom coop issues, exchanging euros for fair, time spent organising a meeting etc, but also just while we are doing hours at the information point. This is in the pad at titanpad.com/localnodecriterias and the idea is its 60% of income from freedom coop which will go to local node tasks.
bhaugen
commented
7 years ago From Telegram:
I wanted to see if the list of tasks I put in the issue on github would work on ocp.. I'm hoping our node tasks reflect what other nodes would also want to do https://github.com/FreedomCoop/valuenetwork/issues/168 GitHub Adding local node tasks · Issue #168 · FreedomCoop/valuenetwork Here are some catalan node tasks we'd like to add. I'm adding them so we can chat about the specifics of adding these to OCP.
Exchange office task: t...
[6:31:21 AM] Lynn Foster: reviewing now....
[6:34:14 AM] Ale Canque: thanks :smile: [6:43:52 AM] Bob Haugen: I'll add that to the issues in the agenda. We can change the agenda sequence as needed.
[6:44:30 AM] Ale Canque: Ok [6:44:32 AM] Bob Haugen: Done But we can also discuss today
[6:45:11 AM] Lynn Foster: Ale, just making sure - do you have time to be at the meeting for some of the time? Or should we do something earlier than the meeting? oops crossed with Bob
[6:45:58 AM] Ale Canque: I'd prefer just earlier.. later I can follow but their event starts at the same time.. Sorry but they just told me yesterday night if we can discuss a bit now it'd be great my question is if we have set places where people go and recieve members of the public, can we log that time, and then somehow add it to work done while at that space.. and I guess we need to add those places to the map, and use them as bookable resources
[6:48:23 AM] Lynn Foster: what is important about the spaces? (thinking about locations / space resources vs are they agents (groups/teams/organizations)?
[6:50:12 AM] Ale Canque: If a member has been at a place 8 hours a week for a month, how do they log their hours [6:50:58 AM] Bob Haugen: They can log their hours as non-production logging (whatever that got renamed to, extra tasks or something like that?)
[6:50:59 AM] Ale Canque: so maybe one is a subtask of the other: firstly you're in the sapce, but if no-one comes or you don't do anything but keep thepace clean or something, it should be added to actual work you do whilst there.. [6:51:57 AM] Bob Haugen: I need a renaming glossary...
[6:52:23 AM] Lynn Foster: so Ale, one issue is they are working for x hours, but you also want to log some of the specific things they did during the x hours?
[6:52:36 AM] Ale Canque: so for example a new member comes and you add them to everything.. so that'd be the "welcome" task, or you print some leaflets "dissemination", but the underlying task was being at the faircoop info point or "office of change" as sebas prefers :wink: yes.. [6:52:57 AM] Bob Haugen: yes what?
[6:53:09 AM] Lynn Foster: so do you want to report out how much time you spend in general on say "welcoming"?
[6:53:09 AM] Ale Canque: yes to lynn's question :) [6:53:23 AM] Bob Haugen: Why?
[6:53:43 AM] Ale Canque: Welcome I guess is person to person: so it would be "introduced anne, carol and bob" or "welcomed 3 people"..
[6:54:13 AM] Lynn Foster: some of this is about trouble logging vs what you need to report to help you understand the work
[6:54:22 AM] Ale Canque: and another person, far from that info point might also welcome people. the point of logging would be just the minimum needed so that payment could be distributed according to who did the agreed node tasks that month
[6:55:08 AM] Lynn Foster: so you could just log "Ale spent 8 hours at xx" and have a description "welcomed 8 people, did some faircoin......" or you could actually log ".5 hours welcoming people", ".8 hours xxx" etc and it would add up to the 8 hours (lot of trouble might be) [6:56:03 AM] Bob Haugen:
Lynn Foster (lot of trouble might be) translate to english?
[6:56:08 AM] Lynn Foster: *might be a lot of extra work to log individual types of work with their times
[6:56:23 AM] Ale Canque: hehe :blush: [6:56:25 AM] Bob Haugen: yes, big PTA
[6:56:43 AM] Lynn Foster: but again it all depends on what you want to do for what output in reporting the work done
[6:56:43 AM] Ale Canque: parent teacher association? ;) no I get it
[6:56:48 AM] Lynn Foster: haha [6:56:57 AM] Bob Haugen: PITA
[6:57:41 AM] Ale Canque: the point of logging them is that after a while you'd want to know something about the quality of that work too.. And a bigger pain in the A is to have to go through old emails or phone messages to remember who came when [6:57:43 AM] Bob Haugen: It's doable either way, as 8 hours or break it into little pieces Explain who came when? What does "who came when" mean?
[6:59:13 AM] Ale Canque: or could they just be separate tasks, unrelated to each other? Okay I'll explain: you get 30 visitors but none of them actually become active members or buy faircoin or anything.. so you'd want to know who they were so the node or local nodes group can see how effective that work is another gets 30 visitors, each one a producer or somehow very active.. it's very different if that accomplishes node objectives.. as opposed to running an empty space. so if the "welcome" task is logged separately it would be useful because you could put a little paragraph about how each welcome session went.. [7:00:51 AM] Bob Haugen: This seems different from logging time...I'm thinking about it
[7:00:52 AM] Lynn Foster: so it is not so much about the time spent on different things, but more about tracking the connections specifically to each person? almost like sales or customer relations in the corporate world, by person? (sorry for comparison :blush:)
[7:01:35 AM] Ale Canque: It's partly for communication with other members, to calculate how much to pay each participant, and also to show how much time spent helped accomplish node objectives
[7:01:47 AM] Lynn Foster: hmmm how do you want to calculate how to pay participants? is it different if you are in the office 8 hours and not too much happening vs if you are busy helping people?
[7:02:34 AM] Ale Canque: but maybe we can use another tool for that.. like owncloud.. I'm not sure if that would be helpful or just make it all more laborious [7:02:57 AM] Bob Haugen: Any other local node issues like that one?
[7:03:22 AM] Ale Canque: yes I think it's different: there could be a basic pay for running a space, and the work done there would add to that [7:03:59 AM] Bob Haugen: I'd like to get a better understanding of the issues and then discuss with Lynn in our walk-and-talk this morning. In other words, not try to jump to conclusions now
[7:04:32 AM] Ale Canque: okay.
[7:04:44 AM] Lynn Foster:
Ale Canque yes I think it's different: there could be a basic pay for runni in that case, you could "double log" the work - log 8 hours base office support, and also log .5 worked with x people..... but i see bob wants to discuss more first......
[7:05:05 AM] Ale Canque: sure. It's just a suggestion. [7:05:45 AM] Bob Haugen: Yeah, I'd like to know if there are other local node tasks like dealing with visitors
[7:05:45 AM] Ale Canque: but that was the main issue - how running the space fits with the other tasks
[7:06:10 AM] Lynn Foster: there are other examples in the issue
[7:06:35 AM] Ale Canque: the welcome task is about that. this is the full list of tasks we agreed we'd do at the last catalan local node assembly.
[7:07:09 AM] Lynn Foster: do you think there will be different pay rates associated with different kinds of tasks?
[7:07:27 AM] Ale Canque: so the welcome task is shared between faircoop members and a committee within the catalan integral cooperative: I'm also a member of this committee - and they deal with booking people rooms or finding places to stay at different cooperative spaces. They even organise trips around all our communities or work spaces So they are kind of about liasion and linking people up, whereas faircoop folks would be informing them about the world of faircoop. yes there would be different pay rates for each thing as we might agree. but it would be based on a split of money available that month from freedom coop, which I believe is a few thousand faircoin for each node.
[7:09:55 AM] Lynn Foster: ok
[7:10:08 AM] Ale Canque: so probably those rates would be percentages
[7:10:13 AM] Lynn Foster: sure i'm trying to work backwards a bit - you only want to log as much as you need to get out
[7:10:57 AM] Ale Canque: ah no.. I see now " In specific, every approved Local Node will receive 1.000 FairCoins/month, mainly for operational expenses, and another 2.000 FairCoins/month for every person involved at the Local Node, up to a maximum of 5 people."
[7:10:59 AM] Lynn Foster: so paying different rates would be important; then just informational reporting - if you want things more than textual, you will need to log at that level of detail
[7:11:04 AM] Ale Canque: this is from https://titanpad.com/SustainableLocalNodes
[7:11:31 AM] Lynn Foster: ah ok
[7:11:55 AM] Ale Canque: also we talked about regular workers and sporadic ones.. so maybe the sporadic ones would be what I was talking about. (at the local nodes assembly) [7:13:00 AM] Bob Haugen: You also mentioned wanting to record details about visitors, maybe who they were, or at least how many, and what resulted That's what I was trying to ask about what other tasks are like that, where you would want more info recorded than how much time somebody spent doing it
[7:13:44 AM] Ale Canque: yes, I think that would help a lot.. With the cic it's a problem sometimes as we haven't usually logged enough info and then have a lot of work before quarterly meetings [7:14:15 AM] Bob Haugen:
Ale Canque yes, I think that would help a lot.. With the cic it's a problem got some examples?
[7:14:31 AM] Ale Canque: currency exchanges should be logged somewhere: so if you exchanged the wrong amount you can find that person. [7:14:57 AM] Bob Haugen: those could be logged in OCP as exchanges
[7:15:22 AM] Lynn Foster: do you do currency exchanges for non-members?
[7:16:22 AM] Ale Canque: okay. then the "producers" task would need you to note what producers you contacted. [7:16:49 AM] Bob Haugen: are those producers for fairmarket? or what?
[7:16:57 AM] Ale Canque: about currency exchanges for non members, faircoop doesn't have membership as such, you can be a fairnetwork user. potential producers who accept faircoin. [7:17:23 AM] Bob Haugen: are currency exchanges done online? and are these all exchanging faircoins for e.g. euros?
[7:17:51 AM] Ale Canque: they could join fairmarket or just accept faircoin outside of that. this directly helps increase the value of the currency, so it depends what they produce.. if they make staple foods or housing it's much more valuable than other more common activities. currency exchanges on getfaircoin result in emails being sent to the person who needs to do that exchange. then the person physically turns up and does it, and finally the exchange is verified. But normally I just report on telegram that it's done, and a getfaircoin admin would log that as complete. [7:19:39 AM] Bob Haugen: So the verification gets logged in getfaircoin already?
[7:19:46 AM] Ale Canque: these people normally want to buy faircoin with their euros, if it's getfaircoin. or give donations to funds. I'm not sure, although I hope @bumfresh can clarify about logging in getfaircoin that is okay sorry, but I have to go now. [7:20:24 AM] Bob Haugen: Are those transactions already recorded in getfaircoin in enuf detail? Or what would you want to add in OCP?
[7:20:29 AM] Ale Canque: back in an hour or so, and can write more then. I hope we find out the answers as I don't have a getfaircoin admin account.
fosterlynn
commented
7 years ago In thinking about the general process we are going through, it seems like it is useful to define:
And then work backwards to the simplest logging possible to get those 2 things.
For example, it makes a difference in logging if you want to know how much time you spent on say welcoming people vs how many people you welcomed and what was the outcome of each.
(This doesn't take into account the detailed level of skills needed to match people to work, but that is not needed in this case. Just noting for now.)
Here are some catalan node tasks we'd like to add. I'm adding them so we can chat about the specifics of adding these to OCP.
Exchange office task: this means being at an exchange office for a set amount of weekly hours. Whilst in the office, there are some tasks to do which are specified below, but by being there, you are also allowing for visitors to come and drop by for various reasons. There are currently 4 offices around Catalunya: "south office" run by Jordi (amount of hours unconfirmed), "Raval" with ale and ruth, (8h a week), "Arbucies", with Sebas (8h a week), and "Aureas" with Dani (5h a week, rising to 10 if there is a need). Exchange currency task: Getfaircoin physical point of exchange (POE) task changing currency for users, administering betabank accounts(to give users their euros from freedomcoop), and the SCUR account on integralces which changes fair to ecos. Producer networking task: understand producer needs and extend use of faircoop/faircoin. this is done by various people, during exchange office hours. Welcome task: welcome new users and get them set up with various technologies. Also can be organising little chats or talks on specific topics. This is done by various people, but also by the extensio (dissemination) commission at the CIC which has done these things so far for both CIC and Faircoop. Dissemination task: sebas will make posters, ale/extensio commission will do online dissemination, and coordinates assistance to talks or conferences or activities locally and internationally if the CIC is involved too. Coordination task: planning assemblies, coordinating various tasks. shared amongst many people, this task has no deadline.. Mapping task: mapping needs and resources for mutual support. (sebas knows more) Economics help: ensuring money arrives to users, accepting or giving money (in various currencies), and carrying out decentralised tasks for the overall economic management where it's relative to catalunya. This also includes informing users: sending messages to members on changes or technical issues, or legal changes etc.