[Nightly/2.7.0/GT5U] Steam Multiblock Rebalancing

[PlayfulPiano]

Your GTNH Discord Username

PlayfulPiano

Your Pack Version

N/A

Your Proposal

Crafting:

• Steam Bronze Multiblocks should keep their structure and Controller crafting recipes close to Stable 2.6.1's Grinder and Squasher Multiblocks

• Steam Steel Multiblocks should have an upgrade chip which requires Polyethylene and an LV assembler to craft (locking it to mid LV).

• Steam Steel Multiblocks should not use Dark Steel or any post EBF material as part of its Multiblock formation. Keep it to regular Steel.

Processing:

• Change Steam Bronze Multiblocks bonuses from 1.33 L:EU / 1.5x Duration (relative to LV recipe duration) to 1.25 L:EU / 1.6x Duration (relative to LV recipe duration), conserves 2x Efficiency compared to singleblock bronze steam machines like current.

• Replace the 16x Parallel upgrade for Steam Steel Multiblocks to 8x Parallel with one of the following two bonus options:

Option 1 - Pure Efficiency Upgrade 1.125 L:EU (56.25% steam use) & 1.25x Duration (relative to LV recipe duration), Roughly 2.8x Efficient compared to singleblock bronze steam machines.

Option 2 - Mirroring Steel Machine Logic 2.5 L:EU (125% steam use) & 0.8x Duration (relative to LV recipe duration), 2x efficient compared to singleblock bronze steam machines.

If neither Option is picked and 16x Parallel is kept, then at least make the same L:EU and Duration multiplier changes done for bronze multis to also be done for steel multis.

Other:

• Only accept LV recipes. MV recipe access is removed.

Your Goal

Crafting:

• The current/stable placement for Bronze tier Multiblocks makes sense in terms of progression. Therefore the ideal here would to keep all Bronze Multiblocks at this stage in terms of relative crafting costs.

• If the Steel tier Multiblock should be locked behind LV, then Polyethylene and an LV assembler would be much more seamless than requiring Dark Steel or any post EBF recipe. And the best way to do that would be to have Steel Multiblocks require a separate controller block to craft. For starters, the benefit of the Steel Multiblocks should still relatively be close to the Steam age, as it is a Steam machine. Second, if the cost requirement is steel in general, then the ideal point for giving access to this machine is when Steel is determined to still be expensive for the player. After having an EBF, Steel processing is significantly quicker through the iron dust / wrought iron dust recipes, and therefore the biggest expense to steel (time) is nullified. Hence the ideal of keeping the access point before the EBF, when the only method to obtain steel is still the BBF. Lastly, the point where you have enough throughput and large enough pipes to handle the amount of steam you need is early LV, where you have access to new steam sources or means to decrease the cost of those steam sources (oil -> fluid heater, assembler railcraft boiler related recipes, etc.).

Processing:

• Multiplier changes to Bronze tier Multiblocks keep the same outcome of 2x Efficiency but using multipliers which evenly divides values rather than having some odd decimal rounding involved for L/t usage due to the 1.33 vs 4/3 decimal repeated discrepancy.

• 16x parallel would mean the steam usage would roughly match with 2x efficiency vs. a bronze singleblock at twice the effective speed. Problem here is that when you're doing an MV tier recipe, at 16A parallel, that requires a whopping 51080L/s throughput (or 48kL/s if the other multiplier changes are implemented). You would literally need Large Dark Steel Pipes to get past that throughput requirement, & steam hatches currently only support 64000L buffer.

• MV recipes just cause too many issues with balancing and tierskipping, not to mention the issue of requiring high steam throughput to even keep them running. It would be a lot better if they were kept to LV, since the main goal is really oreproc here.

Your Vision

Instead of doubling the parallel for steel multis, my recommendation would be to keep it at 8x parallel but improve the speed/L usage using one of the two mentioned options.

The first option is more beneficial for steam usage with recipes, but with worse speed / processing power compared to the current proposed parallel or option 2 This would be a roughly 3x boost to efficiency over 2x (4x is what's required to get perfect efficiency relative to fluid heater EU/t conversion). This would also have the lowest steam rate magnitude, allowing for smaller (albeit still large, at 21.6kL/s for 8A MV) required throughput.

The second option mirrors the current 16x parallel but using the steam singleblock bonuses to keep the tier differences consistent regardless if it's a singleblock or Multiblock. That way it can be presented clearer to the player, and can understand that all steam steel machines have 2x speed and 2x steam usage compared to their bronze machine counterparts. Also as an added bonus, steel multis would actually process resources regardless of parallel faster than singleblock LV machines, which would be an added incentive for using the multi here. Of course EU/steam wise the LV machine would still be better, and option 1 would also have better EU/steam efficiency comparatively.

I wanted to get this posted after seeing the feature freeze warning alert on discord. Anyways, thanks for consideration.

Final Checklist

• [X] I have searched this issue tracker and there is nothing similar already. Posting on a closed issue saying I like this change please reconsider adding it will prompt us to investigate and reopen it once we confirm your report.
• [X] I understand this change request may not attract enough attention and thus not be implemented.
• [X] I understand this change request may be rejected due to other community members think it's inappropriate.
• [X] I believe this feature would make the pack better.

[Dream-Master]

@EvgenWarGold

[chochem]

I think the efficiency is quite good as is and does not need a buff.

[FourIsTheNumber]

Talked about in discord but will also post here. I really do not see any reason to further gate the steel multis, they are already extremely expensive and keeping them as 2-tiered multis is much smoother. The proposed dark steel change is even more egregious to me but I don't like changing controller recipes either.

[PlayfulPiano]

I think the efficiency is quite good as is and does not need a buff.

Had discussions in the discord (check github discussion history of it today) about the efficiency stat, and mainly the concern was setting up the necessary infrastructure for the required steam throughput & buffer of the actual steam hatch in the multi.

We didn't really have anyone who specifically wanted to talk about the balance of the multis themselves stat wise, but the view that was commonly discussed there was that the actual upgrade to the steel tier multi didn't really have much value for players with how expensive the multi craft itself was (even if it was changed to only use regular steel and not dark steel at all). Personally I didn't mind the cost of the upgarde or having the efficiency being around the same or a ~3x value instead of 2x value, but that was part of the discussion.

Either way though, if efficiency does stay to the current expected amount (2x), I would still heavily recommend changing the multipliers from 1.33 L:EU & 1.5x Duration to 1.25 L:EU & 1.6x Duration (for bronze multis). This here would lead to the same 2x result while avoiding a lot of the weird rounding values that come with using .33. Efficiency would also be an exact 2x here.

For steel I would just personally recommend making them have 2x speed rather than 2x parallel to fit better with the standard bronze -> steel upgrade of steam singleblocks.

[Baerschen]

Will copy what i stated in discord: "reading through it right now and i especially agree with mv recipes running at 16x parallel. That takes an enormous amount of steam which isnt that nice to handle pre fluid p2p

when playing while the bronze one could still do MV recipes it kept powerfailing until i upgraded to large potin pipes and thats with only 8 parallels and only one steam multiblock running."

So i do agree that an upgrade in efficiency can be something that should be considered for T2 IMHO.

[PlayfulPiano]

After some more discussion in discord,, it just seems pretty supported to just remove the MV recipes altogether from steel multis. It just causes way too many issues with steam throughput, tierskipping concerns, and is honestly not necessary for the oreproc aspect of the machines.

Honestly I don't even know why MV recipes are needed in the first place. I heard it was due to making mixer more viable, but like the recipes that MV gives access to for the mixer (stainless steel, energium, kanthal, rose gold, endereye dust, ) are really not needed to be accessible in LV & just causes a whole mess of tierskipping issues. Same goes for the centrifuge (some bee combs, glowstone).

Keeping it to LV recipes and not having a dark steel req would make this a lot less complicated / problematic, regardless of what type of upgrade it receives.

[chochem]

to summarize from latest discord thread, Dream says:

1) Remove MV tier recipes

2) Make steel multiblocks x2 speed (at 2x steam usage like HP-machines if I understand correctly)

3) Replace 16x parallels with 8x parallels

4) Remove dark steel requirements (also no other extra requirements for steel tier)

[PlayfulPiano]

Addressed in a separate PR.