[Discussion] Modify oregen so every chunk has a valid vein

[richardhendricks]

Currently oregen in gt5u, once it finds a valid mix for a dimension, leaves the chunk empty if that oremix was unable to place any blocks due to height restrictions.

This request-for-discussion is to consider changing it so that if an orevein attempts to place blocks, but was unable to, oregen continues searching for another valid oremix, up to the maximum attempts (currently 256, see below).

Based on my analysis of logs generated for #1909 , about 35% of the chunks at typical overworld height have no oreveins.

GT:NH is a hardmode modpack, we all get that. Tedium is part of the novelty and charm. However, I think that by allowing oregen to leave so many chunks empty, it adds too much disappointment.

Some players are spending hours looking for a specific oremix - a few going into double digits. That's simply not fun. Populating all the chunks raises the chances of finding the wanted ore or at least something else valuable. There are plenty of oremixes. You will still have to spend time looking for specific veins. This will not change that.

There are still major incentives to automate ore discovery and mining. The number of mixes is high enough that locating a specific ore will take time, so automating is still a big advantage.

Analysis is needed to determine how many attempts are needed before a useable vein is found, and how this change will affect the chunk generation time.

If we still want empty chunks, just less of them, we can implement this change but reduce the number of attempts from 256 to something lower after testing.

Side effects of proposed change:

• Longer time for chunk generation because a valid oremix must be found.
• if there is a very empty chunk generated, the oremix will be guaranteed to fit that height.
• if a chunk has no valid stone, it will max the attempts
• oreveins in short areas like Twilight Forest or deep ocean go up significantly. This could be a feature to encourage exploration and development of these zones, and will assist in finding ores that are naturally close to bedrock. I think it adds playability and progression to tell players to search for diamonds/redstone in short areas like deep ocean, or large rifts. Or underneath lava oceans in the Nether for beryllium, sulfur, etc. Versus 'just dig more holes around your whole base'

[richardhendricks]

Thanks, this is great information. I will try to setup a program to analyze abundance and compare against rarity.

I think the only other dimension that would be useful would be The End. Also, if you can, try and compare flying/generating new chunks with the old oregen vs the new oregen. How responsive is it? Does it feel like your computer is running slow? My concern is with the large amount of void space, oregen will always take the max # of attempts and take much longer than expected.

[NNM42]

in my opinion: don't feel slowness PC. If I use chunk pregen and select huge area, than it take more time vs small areas. When I just explore world/fly on forge - it comfortable. If Ultra mine core server - more comfortable.

Ore mix have 7 blocks height. world heigh 256, IMHO 30-40 trying sufficiently for game and 64 for dev/debug mode.

[NNM42]

add info about THE END

[NNM42]

well... https://github.com/Blood-Asp/GT5-Unofficial/pull/1227

[richardhendricks]

FYI, the NH version is significantly different than the head of GT5U. I don't think we can really compare them.

I would really like to see per-biome oregen instead of this hacky dimension/height oregen. It doesn't lead to much playability or real exploration/diversity. Ie, search for a desert to look for silver veins, swamps to look for coal, mountains to look for iron, mesas to look for copper, snowy for tin, etc is what I would consider ideal. Although I suspect this would cause a mass revolt, since it would mean you would have to have far-flung mining operations. It would make trains really really interesting as a mass transit mechanism to return ores from distant places. On servers, it could be plus/minus. It would encourage using world anchor carts to allow trains to visit distant places, but that leaves them vulnerable to other players. On the plus side, it could encourage player trade between far apart locations.

Anyways, my proposal of controlling the empty orevein spawn rate directly helps with the searching, but doesn't really help with encouraging exploration. Old way or this way, it's difficult to get a real feel for orevein frequency because of the height restrictions. I'll try and do some analysis on @NNM42 's logs to get a feel for actual distribution vs requested distribution.

Once players have flight and TiCon 3x3 tools, orevein searching is much easier. A better solution might be to increase the rates for those first veins needed in steam/LV/MV so that they are easier to find. While copper is used frequently, it is fairly easy to find IMO. Tin and redstone and lapis are usually the ones that hold up players the most?

[draknyte1]

Biome dependant ores was a GT4 feature and was removed as it's more annoying than not. On a server, it even locks players down far more heavily unless they're spaced several thousand meters away from each other.

[Dream-Master]

@richardhendricks We have so many biomes that it will be very difficult to tier. Some seeds have some biomes (let's say bamboo wood) very often and in some seed you need to travel 5000 blocks to find some. If the ores high work better then now I am ok with it.

[richardhendricks]

Well, I wouldn't make ores biome-unique like that. Rather these ores spawn in these groups of biomes. Bamboo wood would probably be comparable to a forest biome. Is there something similar to oreDict for biomes? And is there a list of all biomes possible?

[richardhendricks]

For example, cold desert, hot desert, those would be desert biomes. chapparal, outback, savannah etc, those would be savannah biomes.

@draknyte1 Can you explain what you mean by "locks players down far more heavily?" I am not sure what you mean. That players don't share resources and need to be far apart to get what they need?

[Dream-Master]

Sure @richardhendricks if you could realise this why not. But then I need to redone a lot of config I guess.

[richardhendricks]

Haha, it's just a dream, not something I could seriously complete. Maybe in 10 years when I retire early with millions of dollars. :relaxed:

[Dream-Master]

:P

[NNM42]

hm: i try change oremix config, just spread from 5 to 64 . (upper bedrock layer and sea level of overworld). just for fan.