ghost
commented
4 years ago Add kinetics in some way to the list
Closed bartimaeusnek closed 3 years ago
ghost
commented
4 years ago Add kinetics in some way to the list
boubou19
commented
4 years ago Do you include combs processing in the UUM Replication rework? Because it would heavily nerf them...
bartimaeusnek
commented
4 years ago @boubou19 no, it wouldn't.
GTNH-Colen
commented
4 years ago
- [ ] UUM Replication should be replaced with TTs Matter creation System
Is this actually done? Feels like something that has been talked about for a long time but was never properly finished afaik?
- [ ] Pure Elemental Ores should be replaced with compund ores
This is a huge project that still needs exceptions in places, I agree the first time you want a mineral it should have some type of chain probably but unlocking a pure variant of the ore much later should also be kept here.
- [ ] Fusion Reactor Turbines mechanic is quite easy, it should have more maintenance, Rotors break to easy, its literal spam at this point. (UV+)
Being able to fully automate processes isn't a bad thing, forcing players to manually switch out rotors at UHV+ is just silly. Alk added a very expensive auto turbine replacement hatch which was a nice solution to some of this.
- [ ] Buff Thaumic Horizons
Not totally sure what you're referring to here, not really heard much that is wrong with thaumic horizons but maybe I'm just out of the loop on it.
Making the DD portal recipe harder should also be a major goal atm, see #6260.
Nugget duping needs to be stopped, I can agree on that
and kinetics should probably also be looked at. Compared to solars they're really powerful atm.
Regian24
commented
4 years ago UUM Replication should be replaced with TTs Matter creation System
I do love some TecTech stuff myself :D
bartimaeusnek
commented
4 years ago TTs Matter creation System
@Technus
unlocking a pure variant of the ore much later should also be kept here.
No. Makes things to easy, was tested long enough to say that.
thaumic horizons
Its basically gated at IV where similar stuff is gated at MV/HV
GeicowithaBango
commented
4 years ago I would like to name another issue. Its about the necessary energy production of multi Amps of LUV pre ones first fusion reactor. All tiers offer a variety of usable energy sources but it seems that LuV has only inconvenient methods to provide many amps , without spamming machines of previous tiers. Ofc plasma beats eventually every energy source but thats a diffrent issue.
So instead of relying on multi IV-Nq Generators, one should have the ability to reach the required power goal with the help of a positive mixture of existing gt multi-blocks. I suggest the following: 1.) Readjust the yield of Gas turbines (+turbine blade value) and make them more attractive to use 2.)Buff certain fluids, LPG for instance 3.)Create a newer, optinal Naquadah processing chain that relies on those machines, with the thought of adding byproducts so that it will be worth the additional effort
Prometheus0000
commented
4 years ago UUM Replication should be replaced with TTs Matter creation System (bot, ice)
Please have someone explain it in detail first, I have no idea what it is, whether is works, what tier it is, etc.
Pure Elemental Ores should be replaced with compund ores
So no iron, copper, titanium, tungsten, aluminium, tin, gold, etc ores?
shinkuri
commented
4 years ago RE Nugget duplication: I wouldn't mind removing all normal "tech" based materials from this. You shouldn't ever make your poor server have to deal with that. But I would like to see it for magic materials. Mainly Steelleaf, Knightmetal, etc
bartimaeusnek
commented
4 years ago RE Nugget duplication: I wouldn't mind removing all normal "tech" based materials from this. You shouldn't ever make your poor server have to deal with that. But I would like to see it for magic materials. Mainly Steelleaf, Knightmetal, etc
this isnt about perfomance and the intention of WG is a bridge on Materials between Tech and Magic.
GTNH-Colen
commented
4 years ago unlocking a pure variant of the ore much later should also be kept here.
No. Makes things to easy, was tested long enough to say that.
This would increase complexity to an absurd degree, I shouldn't have to be running long chem chains in UEV for HV materials. At a certain point older materials should become easier and newer tier related materials should be the focus.
bartimaeusnek
commented
4 years ago UUM Replication should be replaced with TTs Matter creation System (bot, ice)
Please have someone explain it in detail first, I have no idea what it is, whether is works, what tier it is, etc.
UHV+ way of creating matter from energy, more complex than current system.
Pure Elemental Ores should be replaced with compund ores
So no iron, copper, titanium, tungsten, aluminium, tin, gold, etc ores?
This would increase complexity to an absurd degree,
yes.
I shouldn't have to be running long chem chains in UEV for HV materials. At a certain point older materials should become easier and newer tier related materials should be the focus.
No. Since you got better ways to extract the materials, access to multiblocks, automation tools like AE2, Redpower, etc. therefore you can make special dedicated setups for the Materials or you just get more and make simpler processing, which is also easy with T+2 machines.
leagris
commented
4 years ago I would keep vanilla raw pure ores. Needing sifters for obtaining Nether Quartz blocks that are pure decoration is backward. Needing chemical crystalization to obtain Lapis Lazuli decoration blocks would not make sense. Same as the removal of Redstone Ore is backward, the Nerf of vanilla stuffs is backward.
bartimaeusnek
commented
4 years ago @leagris These aren't elements, but materials. Im talking about Iron, Gold, Aluminium, Plutonium, etc. Not compounds like Lapis or Nether Quartz.
GTNH-Colen
commented
4 years ago UUM Replication should be replaced with TTs Matter creation System (bot, ice)
Please have someone explain it in detail first, I have no idea what it is, whether is works, what tier it is, etc.
UHV+ way of creating matter from energy, more complex than current system.
So you won't be able to use UUM (Or w/e this elemental thing is) pre UHV? I think a lot of people would be against that personally.
Pure Elemental Ores should be replaced with compund ores
So no iron, copper, titanium, tungsten, aluminium, tin, gold, etc ores?
This would increase complexity to an absurd degree,
yes.
Cool, I like complexity and the idea of it is interesting but one thing people never consider is TPS. The amount of machines I have to constantly run these days is staggering and really does start to put a strain on servers/TPS after a while. A platinum like chain for every material would require hundreds of new machines running nearly constantly adding a lot of stress to servers which is why older processes should be made obsolete and newer more interesting chains should become the focus.
Prometheus0000
commented
4 years ago UHV+ way of creating matter from energy, more complex than current system.
This completely tells me what machines it involves! And how to use it! /s This is completely insufficient information, you know? I mean, you know how to use it or you wouldn't be suggesting it, right? Or are you waiting for Technus to explain?
Are you planning on changing the recipes for stuff that people use the replication for, like indium, or your gasses? Don't people replicate it because the current recipes are too hard? And will UUM still be around?
Do you include combs processing in the UUM Replication rework? Because it would heavily nerf them...
@boubou19 no, it wouldn't.
No it wouldn't include them, or no it wouldn't nerf them?
GTNH-Colen
commented
4 years ago Can you not mark comments as "resolved" when barely half the points I raised have even been discussed for literally 30 minutes? Especially when one of the replies was just "yes" as if that accurately resolves anything. Burying criticism/concerns does nothing to help this topic.
Regian24
commented
4 years ago solar rework?
chochem
commented
4 years ago regarding fusion: tin fusion certainly needs to be replaced by something more challenging eventually. However, just making stuff break more/have more maintenance of sorts sounds like an annoying&boring solution.
regarding uum: that would be a great change imo. Of course a few things like indium would need major adjustments. And the EM system would need some actual documention. But the directions sounds good.
One other major rework that comes to mind is:
Prometheus0000
commented
4 years ago It also make it harder to read, since one has to click the button to read the text every time.
A platinum like chain for every material
Isn't bart just suggesting something like removing Tin in favor of only Cassiterite? or Limonite/Banded/Magnetite instead of Iron.
GTNH-Colen
commented
4 years ago It also make it harder to read, since one has to click the button to read the text every time.
A platinum like chain for every material
Isn't bart just suggesting something like removing Tin in favor of only Cassiterite? or Limonite/Banded/Magnetite instead of Iron.
I've no idea, no real chains have been proposed but based off the way the plat stuff was changed I am just concerned it may go overboard and start to require way too much machinery and seriously hurt TPS. More complex chains for higher tiers would be nice but can we stop just going back and nerfing LV-EV territory over and over again at least?
0lafe
commented
4 years ago Isn't the pure ore issue more around things like W, Ke, and maybe even Sm? Lots of the EV+ mats are still dumb easy to make, and have no real proc chains. Naq is a huge problem here, and probably needs the most attention of the midgame ores, considering how shit tier that whole system is atm. Would be nice to expand on nuke fuel chains, but I'm not sure how easy that would be. Could give enriched U a recipe that needs more than just coolant, and maybe non pure Th or something.
Fusion needs a lot more than just a turbine rework, the recipes are God awful atm. The rotors breaking too fast is nowhere near the issue, and from what i can tell, they don't break that fast. Getting multiple days from Ke rotors is absurd.
Kinetics should probably get more than just breakable rotors if we're going all the way with revamping shitty systems. Singleblock gens for EV+ is just bad design. Give them some maint, some lube inputs, a breakable rotor, a multiblock structure, and maybe even some more.
Might also want to put solar on there for the same reasons as kinetics. Really poor design for generators in those tiers. Primarily I mean the thaum solars, however the GT solars aren't really a good design mechanic in any way either. They just suck enough that it's less of an issue lol
Mutiple LuV amp gens is something I'd take a little more cautiously. I'd personally argue that combustable/gas fuels don't deserve to have an LuV option such as that. Considering the complexity of the fuels, keeping them in EV/IV seems very ok. More LuV gens could be fun, but imo having them rely on the earlier game fuels isn't the best way to go about it. Rockets for example have something that does multiple LuV amps of gen, but has fuels far more complex than simple combustion/gas fuels.
Also, on the DD, atm there's a lot of ores that just shouldn't be there. Even with an expensive portal recipe, things like fusion ores/ichorium are incredibly out of place spawning as ores. I guess this would feed into the pure ore topic, but i wouldn't recommend even having non pure ores of these materials.
bartimaeusnek
commented
4 years ago Are you planning on changing the recipes for stuff that people use the replication for, like indium, or your gasses? Don't people replicate it because the current recipes are too hard? And will UUM still be around?
Indium and Boron are quite easily obtainable, just no one really does it, because its a seperate line for indium (2 step chem, that can be fed with Nether Ores quite easy and fast).
Isn't bart just suggesting something like removing Tin in favor of only Cassiterite? or Limonite/Banded/Magnetite instead of Iron.
yes this is exactly what im proposing for now, we might end up making certain elements with larger chains, but for now removing/replacing pure elements should be sufficient.
Can you not mark comments as "resolved" when barely half the points I raised have even been discussed for literally 30 minutes? Especially when one of the replies was just "yes" as if that accurately resolves anything. Burying criticism/concerns does nothing to help this topic.
Thats to a keep the thread shorter to focus on the actual topics, unbiased, instead of every input. Like the stuff you post of chemlines when there is litteraly no word of additional chemlines until you bough it up.
Do you include combs processing in the UUM Replication rework? Because it would heavily nerf them...
@boubou19 no, it wouldn't.
No it wouldn't include them, or no it wouldn't nerf them?
It wouldnt include them.
bartimaeusnek
commented
4 years ago Isn't the pure ore issue more around things like W, Ke, and maybe even Sm? Lots of the EV+ mats are still dumb easy to make, and have no real proc chains. Naq is a huge problem here, and probably needs the most attention of the midgame ores, considering how shit tier that whole system is atm. Would be nice to expand on nuke fuel chains, but I'm not sure how easy that would be. Could give enriched U a recipe that needs more than just coolant, and maybe non pure Th or something.
Seperate issue.
Also, on the DD, atm there's a lot of ores that just shouldn't be there. Even with an expensive portal recipe, things like fusion ores/ichorium are incredibly out of place spawning as ores. I guess this would feed into the pure ore topic, but i wouldn't recommend even having non pure ores of these materials.
DD is basically a hack for endgame, where there is no much content, also the DD always contained a shitton of random ore, currently its having a special voidminer droplist for performance reasons, what this ticket is NOT about.
I've no idea, no real chains have been proposed but based off the way the plat stuff was changed I am just concerned it may go overboard and start to require way too much machinery and seriously hurt TPS. More complex chains for higher tiers would be nice but can we stop just going back and nerfing LV-EV territory over and over again at least?
still a seperate issue. TPS is not a thing to concern about when talking about mechanics, but when talking about implementation.
GTNH-Colen
commented
4 years ago Thats to a keep the thread shorter to focus on the actual topics, unbiased, instead of every input. Like the stuff you post of chemlines when there is litteraly no word of additional chemlines until you bough it up.
Having more non pure ores implies you will need chem lines (Or some kind of TPS eating setup anyhow) to purify them, just like the plat line did. Not sure how these are separate issues?
bartimaeusnek
commented
4 years ago TPS is not a thing to concern about when talking about mechanics, but when talking about implementation.
Having more non pure ores implies you will need chem lines
The impure versions already exist and people are using them already, this is not a big change, for the most part.
redmage17
commented
4 years ago If you are going to take a massive nerfbat we need specifics. This looks like an excuse to add more grind than actual content again.
redmage17
commented
4 years ago Are you planning on changing the recipes for stuff that people use the replication for, like indium, or your gasses? Don't people replicate it because the current recipes are too hard? And will UUM still be around?
Indium and Boron are quite easily obtainable, just no one really does it, because its a seperate line for indium (2 step chem, that can be fed with Nether Ores quite easy and fast).
Isn't bart just suggesting something like removing Tin in favor of only Cassiterite? or Limonite/Banded/Magnetite instead of Iron.
yes this is exactly what im proposing for now, we might end up making certain elements with larger chains, but for now removing/replacing pure elements should be sufficient.
Can you not mark comments as "resolved" when barely half the points I raised have even been discussed for literally 30 minutes? Especially when one of the replies was just "yes" as if that accurately resolves anything. Burying criticism/concerns does nothing to help this topic.
Thats to a keep the thread shorter to focus on the actual topics, unbiased, instead of every input. Like the stuff you post of chemlines when there is litteraly no word of additional chemlines until you bough it up.
Do you include combs processing in the UUM Replication rework? Because it would heavily nerf them...
@boubou19 no, it wouldn't.
No it wouldn't include them, or no it wouldn't nerf them?
It wouldnt include them.
The Window that people use UU for Indium is fairly short. I am at IV with tier 3 rockets and I can mine thousand of it easily. UU is used for large quantities of low mass materials that are difficult to get such as Helium, Barium,Boron.
This will also take another massive nerf bat to crops and bees.
The other I can see is Tiberium gives a massive net with UU from what I understand. This needs to be fixed through other means honestly and should be taken care of through the processing chain. This is one element that probably is OP.
Don't nerf UU make it easier to acquire these materials through other means.
redmage17
commented
4 years ago One the pure ore issue, you are obviously referring to some exploit. Can your refer to the dupe bug and we address that instead of a massive unneeded overhaul of lower tier pure ores?
redmage17
commented
4 years ago Honestly the rest of those need to be their own thread and we need specifics. Making a broad statement and assuming everyone knows what the hell you are up to is bad. On a final note
Some Materials (mainly EV+ Tier, Sm, Th, U, Nq, Ke) are too easy to process/obtain (0lafe) Of course they are for him he's at what ZPM now? Funny how his mind works.
ScriptedPiky
commented
4 years ago So about the lag in the large chemical processing lines. I would say that yes, a lot of it comes from e-networks or GT item & fluid pipes, however, my entire Plat line on Zeta is only causing maybe around 3-6~ ms of lag. A good portion of that lag is coming from one 16A Battery Buffer and 2 EV Hi-Amp Transformers, out of the 30+ machines (including multi-block controllers) inside my base. Of course, this setup can be further optimized if desired to reduce transformers, fewer cables, machines, and EiO fluid/item conduits.
Although, a few important key points are that I use superconductors only and two tiers of energy lines; IV and EV. Zeta is a not so powerful server and may not handle complicated setups so easily. What may seem 3-6~ ms could be almost nothing or it could be similar or even higher for others. Your EiO tree farm will most likely cause more lag than your entire Plat line combined.
MotiasNotMe
commented
4 years ago 
Rakdarian
commented
4 years ago Its gated at IV
what in Thaumic horizons is gated at IV?
Rakdarian
commented
1 week ago What was the reason for the WG nugget dupe removals. Which recipes were removed, im not sure the uranium or even the plutonium dupes were warranted given later gating that enabled that in the first place, the most powerful thing you can do now is make the frames, and those still end up being HV recipes thanks the the centrifuge one
To be continued