LuV+ coils should require assembly line recipes and more complex components

[johnch18]

Coils are made in the tier-1 assembler for a given tier and require 2x wires, insulator sheets, and molten fluid. I think in order to match the complexity of LuV+ tiers, we should make higher tier coils require the assembly line instead of the assembler, and require more complex components from the given tier such as field generators, different platings, pumps, etc., in order to make the construction more difficult and more engaging, as the current method becomes somewhat repetitive and simple in comparison to lower tiers.

[0lafe]

yes

[leagris]

no

[botn365]

no

[johnch18]

The difficulty of coils just does not scale with the rest of the game properly

[leagris]

Not unless you back this with some testimony about your own GTNH experience.

1. Did you finish crafting all your LuV coils? a. If yes, do you think it is fair to raise the complexity and difficulty level of this recipe for newcomers when you benefited from the easier access to the recipe?
2. Do you think your game experience with GTNH was feeling inferior or too easy when you crafted your LuV+ coils?
3. Do you think it would be coherent if every LuV+ assembler recipes were to be removed and replaced by assembly line recipes instead?

[0lafe]

to 3, i think that would be a good idea tbh. the idea of single blocks being still very relevant when we have such cooler multi versions is a bit disappointing for lategame

[leagris]

to 3, i think that would be a good idea tbh. the idea of single blocks being still very relevant when we have such cooler multi versions is a bit disappointing for lategame

I can't wait to see Assembly Line recipe for torches with sticks and IC2 harz

Well, an assembly line would take raw logs and sticky burnable fluid, then assemble a full stack worth of torches every single tick.

[johnch18]

1. Yes, and yes. Naquadah coils were trivially easy to make and it's been the same experience with every subsequent coil. I casually crafted a MEBF's worth of fluxed electrum coils and it barely took more than an hour and I'm in the process of doing the same with AD coils.
2. I definitely noticed a deficit of difficulty when compared to previous tiers
3. Reductio ad absurdum, I'm not talking about every single recipe. Coils are an extremely important part of a given tier much like motors,pumps,etc. and I think that they should be treated similarly.

I really don't think it's too much of an ask to have people use the tools of the tier they are in.

[bartimaeusnek]

yes. they def. should. No singleblocks @ LuV + anymore please.

[johnch18]

Here's what I was thinking: 64 2x Wires of [Material] 8 Dense plates of [Material] 2 [Tier - 2/3] Field Generators 1 [Tier] Pump However many insulator sheets.

Results in -> 8x [Material] coils The fluids would include the one from the current recipe, soldering alloy, and IC2 coolant.

[botn365]

but you do have to keep in mined the mega EBF sure coils feel prety cheap in LuV+ but by then at least in my experience you start making the mega ebf wich does need 864 coils this made it not super easy to make the coils would somthing like this be nice for cracker/LCR sure but ebf/mega ebf it would cost to much at the tiers of upgrading

[johnch18]

To fully upgrade the mega EBF you already need nearly 40K nickel, 10K tungsten, 10K chrome, 40K iridium, and 10K osmium, it's already pretty expensive. Considering you can use TT laser hatches on the thing and it's a giant processing array that also benefits from upgraded overclocking, I think it should be more expensive.

[GeicowithaBango]

I would prefer a higher item cost if that lowers the recipe time in the assembler/assembling line. it took us way too long to assemble the awk. draconium coils.

[alphaNOVAircraft]

Just adding everything to Ass lInes doesnt add complexity imo. We have plenty of ass line recipes, and coils simply need no fancy ass line, they are fckn COILS, a dumb block made out of wire. Especially when you just get LuV you cant really affort multiple ass lines just to upgrade your ebf or have to wait a few days with your single ass line and cant do a single other recipe cz your ass line is blocked.

Coils are gating, you need many if you go for a mega (which you want to do at these tiers) and overloading the assline with to many recipes sucks.

Ppl have to automate ass line and do it already, it is a bit more annoying, but not really harder by any means once you got it running. All i see here is some annoying stuff, that doesnt make any sense (imo for a coil) and just spams the ass line.

[alphaNOVAircraft]

I would prefer a higher item cost if that lowers the recipe time in the assembler/assembling line. it took us way too long to assemble the awk. draconium coils.

a mega shouldnt be build in a few seconds, since vm exist i feel like its actually really good its gated by time (which you could make faster, just build more assemblers) instead of resources (cz you have unlimited of them once you have your vm).

[Prometheus0000]

As alpha said, they're not complicated things, they're not even TEs! Save the assline for complicated stuff, don't add difficulty where it isn't needed instead of new mechanics, just to pad things out more.

If you want to add complexity to something easily, suggest a much large structure for the VMs, they seem like they should be larger/more expensive.

[bartimaeusnek]

Just adding everything to Ass lInes doesnt add complexity imo.

It kind of does, as you've mentioned below:

Ppl have to automate ass line and do it already, it is a bit more annoying

annoyingness makes stuff harder. If you feel too lazy to do some repetetative task, you automate it and feel smart.

We have plenty of ass line recipes, and coils simply need no fancy ass line, they are fckn COILS, a dumb block made out of wire.

Same argument could be done for the energy, muffler and io hatches. Still people felt they were too cheap.

Especially when you just get LuV you cant really affort multiple ass lines just to upgrade your ebf or have to wait a few days with your single ass line and cant do a single other recipe cz your ass line is blocked.

You can't affort running your Assembler 24/7 @ LuV either, if you just started LuV, i'd prefer a more expensive, more fleched out, way shorter assembly line recipe over a long enduring assembler recipe.

[johnch18]

As alpha said, they're not complicated things, they're not even TEs! Save the assline for complicated stuff, don't add difficulty where it isn't needed instead of new mechanics, just to pad things out more.

If you want to add complexity to something easily, suggest a much large structure for the VMs, they seem like they should be larger/more expensive.

Void ore miners should consume UU-matter and nobody can convince me otherwise.

[alphaNOVAircraft]

Just adding everything to Ass lInes doesnt add complexity imo.

It kind of does, as you've mentioned below:

Annoying =/= complexity, its not like i do a intresting automation, i could do that with 2 hoppers and a bc tank........................... Not like you craft coils every day, it wont change shit, a lot of ppl wouldnt even bother to make a pattern for it tbh.

Ppl have to automate ass line and do it already, it is a bit more annoying

annoyingness makes stuff harder. If you feel too lazy to do some repetetative task, you automate it and feel smart.

It is already automated, the annoying part is making the 10000000 ass line pattern / setting up sfm or whatever you use

We have plenty of ass line recipes, and coils simply need no fancy ass line, they are fckn COILS, a dumb block made out of wire.

Same argument could be done for the energy, muffler and io hatches. Still people felt they were too cheap.

Not really, energy hatches etc you need in low amounts and they are rather expensive material wise, they are more complex in recipe / different items etc, but coils are 2 different items..... its a fckn coil block nothing more

Especially when you just get LuV you cant really affort multiple ass lines just to upgrade your ebf or have to wait a few days with your single ass line and cant do a single other recipe cz your ass line is blocked.

You can't affort running your Assembler 24/7 @ LuV either, if you just started LuV, i'd prefer a more expensive, more fleched out, way shorter assembly line recipe over a long enduring assembler recipe.

You can run an assembler luv once you are luv, otherwise there is smth really wierd happening there. But the difference is in just energy and a using a machine you can definitly only make one cz you just spend all your stuff on it.

And pls, just annoying IS NOT harder, making ppl quite because of boredome isnt fancy, im all in for hard recipes etc but dont make it over and over repetitive.

We should maybe also point out that coils will already be nerfed in the newer devs due to the addidtion of new coils = even more gating.

[GeicowithaBango]

I would prefer a higher item cost if that lowers the recipe time in the assembler/assembling line. it took us way too long to assemble the awk. draconium coils.

a mega shouldnt be build in a few seconds, since vm exist i feel like its actually really good its gated by time (which you could make faster, just build more assemblers) instead of resources (cz you have unlimited of them once you have your vm).

Even if the coils stay as an asembler recipe they should take less time to craft when you use -definitely- more non-trivial items, such as the heavy duty plates or field gens. and bringing up the VM as an infinite resource gen is theatralic in this discussion

[alphaNOVAircraft]

I would prefer a higher item cost if that lowers the recipe time in the assembler/assembling line. it took us way too long to assemble the awk. draconium coils.

a mega shouldnt be build in a few seconds, since vm exist i feel like its actually really good its gated by time (which you could make faster, just build more assemblers) instead of resources (cz you have unlimited of them once you have your vm).

Even if the coils stay as an asembler recipe they should take less time to craft when you use -definitely- more non-trivial items, such as the heavy duty plates or field gens. and bringing up the VM as an infinite resource gen is theatralic in this discussion

Its still COILS, and the time is fine imo cz affording a second assembly isnt that hard. And heavy duty and field gens shouldnt be part of coils imo. Especially field gens would drive the price up quite a lot xD

[johnch18]

Its still COILS

So are fusion coils

[GeicowithaBango]

I would prefer a higher item cost if that lowers the recipe time in the assembler/assembling line. it took us way too long to assemble the awk. draconium coils.

a mega shouldnt be build in a few seconds, since vm exist i feel like its actually really good its gated by time (which you could make faster, just build more assemblers) instead of resources (cz you have unlimited of them once you have your vm).

Even if the coils stay as an asembler recipe they should take less time to craft when you use -definitely- more non-trivial items, such as the heavy duty plates or field gens. and bringing up the VM as an infinite resource gen is theatralic in this discussion

Its still COILS, and the time is fine imo cz affording a second assembly isnt that hard. And heavy duty and field gens shouldnt be part of coils imo. Especially field gens would drive the price up quite a lot xD

of course coils that use more power need isolation (heavy-duty plates) and something to prevent the coils to go nuts if theres so much power throughput (field gens). seems kinda perfect to me. But you right, no too expensive, considering how @johnch18 described them they should be more then fine. if you want a MBF at LuV, you dont need the LuV coils in particullar (im thinking about the big smelting step to make the fusion mk1 reactor), later on you have the power and resources to spam LuV+ coils

[0lafe]

if you do it well setting up assline patterns is just as annoying as assembler patterns, and less annoying than manually moving the fluids/items for coils in a single block.

lessening annoyance with automation is a good incentive to not do things so simply, as annoyance/waiting is really our only option as a detriment to large scale infra

i'm not sure why it matters so much that it's a coil, imo it's more about the gameplay benefits of later game mats having better recipes and more complex gates in terms of automation setup.

[johnch18]

As far as "immersion" the coils both function to heat the interior of the blast furnace as well as keep the heat from escaping, so a combination of insulation, cooling, and force fields makes sense. These are high tier coils, after all.

[GeicowithaBango]

true true

[johnch18]

Let's compare LuV motors and IV motors, just for the sake of argument: IV Motors require: 16x Graphene 2.5 Tungsten 0.5 Steel 0.5 Neodymium As well as the cost to cover the cables. All in a crafting bench.

LuV Motors require: 0.5 Samarium 0.35 Tungsten 0.35 Steel 0.14 Chrome 0.3 Molybdenum 0.14 Vanadium 0.2 Osmium 10.3 Ruthenium 5.4 Iridium .17 Yttrium .34 Barium .51 Copper Add in the misc fluids. In the assembly line. Make sure to think about the amount of processing needed to get all of these materials and cook them up and whatnot.

Now consider IV->LuV coils.

[GeicowithaBango]

Do me the favor and compare IV and LuV field gens :P

[Prometheus0000]

There's zero indication of the using 'force fields' or w/e. Maybe you should suggest a new EBF for LuV+ that's like the volcanus that can have more complicated coils. That would compete with the MBF though. Presumably the glass is doing something related to keeping the heat in, so it doesn't need it either.

[GeicowithaBango]

Everything gets more expensive in LuV, its as simple as that.

[johnch18]

IV FG

2.2 Tungsten 2.2 Steel 1.7 Molybdenum 0.8 Vanadium 0.8 Chromium 2.7 Iridium 1.8 Osmium 1 Nether Star 1kL Radon + 4 ZPM Circuits

LuV FG

4.5 Tungsten 4.5 Steel 3.5 Molybdenum 1.8 Chromium 1.8 Vanadium 2.6 Osmium 6 Nether Stars 6kL Radon 2 Samarium 192 Gallium 74 Ruthenium 42 Iridium 3.7 Yttrium 7.4 Barium 11 Copper + 16 LuV Circuits 4 ZPM Circuits

Didn't include cost of circuits because that's just way too variable.

[johnch18]

@Prometheus0000 the FGs are to help contain all the heat just like in fusion coils.

[GlodBlock]

use field generators as craft material for a COIL? do you want to realize nuclear fusion in EBF?

[johnch18]

I specified Tier - 2 or 3 field gens. I'm cruel but not that cruel lol.

[alphaNOVAircraft]

Tier 10 field gens for awdr coils inc, just about half a stargate worth of bio mainframes for a single mega blast furnace should be fine LMAO

[johnch18]

That's the spirit!

[johnch18]

I'm gonna implement my suggested changes this week and post the recipes pages.

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[Ethryan]

I don’t think this has been implemented yet.

[Prometheus0000]

I was hoping this would go away.

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This issue is stale because it has been open 90 days with no activity. Remove stale label or comment or this will be closed in 3 days