[Suggestion / RFC] Change ME Storage Components beeing extensive recursive crafting

[alphaNOVAircraft]

What do you suggest instead/what changes do you propose?

Currently ME Storage compnents dont bring any benefit when beeing upgraded in terms of capacity (they even get more expensive but not more capacity). Furthermore the high tier cells take insane amounts of cheap compnents that just slow down crafting (1 16M drive is 64 000 ulv circuits e.g.)) Maybe add direct recipes for storage cells higher then 1k that get aviable later so that a alternative to the currently recursive crafting only exits #

What is your GTNH Discord username?

alphaNOVA#9875

[Prometheus0000]

There was already another issue on this. You couldn't go post there instead? We reopen stuff you know. Not that I could find it either, lol. I think it was colen's issue?

[alphaNOVAircraft]

Mitch suggested i open an issue so i guessed there wassnt one, and reopening issues will get lost again, most ppl dont bother to check page 238 of issues..

[GTNH-Colen]

https://github.com/GTNewHorizons/GT-New-Horizons-Modpack/pull/5040 I think this was the other thread? Not of my creation though.

[GTNH-Afx237v7]

I'm also all for reducing the nested crafting - the resource cost for larger AE cells are much higher than for a comparably sized super/quantum chest.

[Glease]

The prohibitively high cost of ME storage cells is one of the several major reasons people use solid drawer cubes. Making ME storage cells easier, if not cheaper, to get would solve the lag from these stupid constructs.

[Prometheus0000]

So what are the recipe suggestions? I don't see any? Which ones should have new recipes? 1 new one for 256k and that's it? All of them past 1k? You need to be clearer about how you want them changed.

[GTNH-Afx237v7]

So currently the base for all components is the 1K ME Storage component, consisting of

• 4 ULV Circuits
• 4 Charged Certus Quartz Dust
• 1 Item Processor Tier 1

As components tier up, the required processors tier up, up and including UV-Tier circuits for the 16384K Storage component.

How about each tier of storage consist of

• 4 tiered circuits
• 4 plates of appropriate tier
• 1 item processor

without requiring the previous tier, i.e. no nested crafting?

So a 1K storage component could remain as is, whereas e.g. the 4096K would be

• 4 LuV Circuits
• 4 LuV-plates (Rhodium-plated Palladium)
• 1 item processor (tier 2? tier 3?)

[repo-alt]

Sounds good. Recursive crafting is evil.

[GTNH-Afx237v7]

So first sketch looks like this:

1K ME
ULV-Circuit	Charged Certus	ULV-Circuit
Charged Certus	Item Processor Tier 1	Charged Certus
ULV-Circuit	Charged Certus	ULV-Circuit
4K ME
LV-Circuit	Steel plate	LV-Circuit
Steel plate	Item Processor Tier 1	Steel plate
LV-Circuit	Steel plate	LV-Circuit
16K ME
MV-Circuit	Aluminum plate	MV-Circuit
Aluminum plate	Item Processor Tier 2	Aluminum plate
MV-Circuit	Aluminum plate	MV-Circuit
64K ME
HV-Circuit	Stainless steel plate	HV-Circuit
Stainless steel plate	Item Processor Tier 2	Stainless steel plate
HV-Circuit	Stainless steel plate	HV-Circuit
256K
EV-Circuit	Titanium Plate	EV-Circuit
Titanium Plate	Item Processor Tier 3	Titanium Plate
EV-Circuit	Titanium Plate	EV-Circuit
1024K
IV-Circuit	Tungstensteel Plate	IV-Circuit
Tungstensteel Plate	Item Processor Tier 3	Tungstensteel Plate
IV-Circuit	Tungstensteel Plate	IV-Circuit
4096K
LuV-Circuit	Rhodium-plated Palladium Plate	LuV-Circuit
Rhodium-plated Palladium Plate	Item Processor Tier 4	Rhodium-plated Palladium Plate
LuV-Circuit	Rhodium-plated Palladium Plate	LuV-Circuit
16384K
ZPM-Circuit	Iridium plate	ZPM-Circuit
Iridium plate	Item Processor Tier 4	Iridium plate
ZPM-Circuit	Iridium plate	ZPM-Circuit

This is indeed a buff for the 16384K as it would use ZPM circuits (currently it jumps from LuV to UV when upgrading 4096K to 16384K)

[Prometheus0000]

I'm already working on it, but Elisis messed up the AE2 script.

[Prometheus0000]

Circuits are oredicted. Should I change the voltages? Or something else?

[Prometheus0000]

Adjusted, see PR.

[0lafe]

why lmao? recursion is what gives these a good cost here. they incentivize automation and punish manual crafting, which seems very positive for an EV+ storage system. The cells are always doable, and imo always worth it. things like drawers/chests just aren't the same for a lot of reasons, and the cells do give bonuses in comparison.

Is there anything that ever actually becomes an issue with these? or do people just unironically dislike recursion that much? seems wack imo

[Prometheus0000]

Wasn't it something like 3M or 30M charged certus quartz or something for the last tier? That's not cool. And some still insane amount for the earlier ones?

And we want people to make these over drawer cubes. They're just storage there's no reason to make it ludicrously expensive, or a recursive craft of bajillions of lower tier components.

You can make them use the previous recipe in your own pack.

[0lafe]

you don't need stacks of 4096ks in LuV though, and you don't need crazy cetus costs then either. By the point of making 16Ms don't you have access to be able to produce well over 3M curtis

drawer cubes also lowkey suck to make anyway, even current AE beats it imo. Maybe make drawer cubes less reasonable to make that large or something? but this seems like a wack way to go about it

[GTNH-Afx237v7]

Suggested by bot on discord:

4K should use 16 certus dusts and 4 processing units
16K should use 32 pure certus dust + 4 tier 1 item processors
64K  64 pure crystals + 4 tier 2 item processors + 16 tier 1 item processors
256K 64 pure fluix crystals +1 tier 3 item processor + 4 tier 2 item processors + 16 EV + 4 IV circuits
1024K 64 pure fluix crystals + 8 tier 3 item processors + 32 tier 2 item processors+ 16 LuV circuits + 4 ZPM circuits
4096K 64 pure fluix crystals +2 tier 4 item processors + 8 tier 3 item processors + 16 ZPM Circuits + 4 UV circuits
16384K 64 pure fluix crystals + 16 tier 4 item processors + 64 tier 3 item processors + 16 UV circuits + 4 UHV

maybe the later tiers should use some field generator as well instead of fluix crystal

EDITED for better readability

[Prometheus0000]

BTW, that's half of incomprehensible to read.

[Alexdoru]

Circuits are oredicted. Should I change the voltages? Or something else?

This is way too cheap wtf

[Alexdoru]

We should keep recursive crafting recipes but make each tier cheaper than what it is now. Right now you take 4 storage units + circuits to make one storage unit of the same capacity. It doesn’t really make sense. We should lower the amount of storage component it takes to craft each tear. Reduce it to 2 or 3 and replace it by a tiered metal or whatever.

[alphaNOVAircraft]

Wow those new recipes are extremly cheap wtf. I would lower the crafting of using 3 (or maybe even 2) of the pervious tier, that way you gain something by adding higher tier circuits and another assembling step.

For non recursive craftings i would suggest using filed gens (starting at LV for a 4k cell, then T+2 for each higher cell => HV=16k, IV=64k, ZPM=256k, UHV=1024k. Higher Tiers shall stay with recursive only crating but can use the single step crafts (that you can make with field gens). These arent supposed to completly replace the current recipes but instead enable a less recursive steps alternative for the later tiers. That way it would be a bit like circuits and then the shortcut via SOC etc. You shouldnt be independend on making 16000 1k storage components in UEV, but you also shouldnt be able to simply carft a 16M cell in one step in UV!.

Its a bit like circuits, your only option to get the highest tiers is by using 3 steps of 2 previous ones.

I did not intend to buff me cell so that they are basicly free for unlimited storage but to enable a replacement with less recursive crafting but higher tier materials.

[Alexdoru]

ok so I did an excel and I got this : This is the cost of the crafting recipe currently:

it is expensive and you don't "benefit" when combining cells together because you pay the cost of 4 cells + circuits to get the storage amount of the 4 cells

this is for 3 items in the recursivity crafting :

Note that it is already way cheaper, my recommendation would be to keep the recipe we have in the game now and replace the top middle cell by a tiered metal plate or a charged certus quartz dust, whatever.

I think we need to keep the recursivity for the following reason :

With recursive crafting you can keep the cells that you crafted from the beginning and continuously upgrade them as you progress throught the tiers. And with the little cost of some extra circuits you get 33% more storage by combining 3 storage component together.

Thank you for comming to my Ted Talk

[Alexdoru]

Also bot said that while he agrees with the fact that the total quantity of components should be reduced to craft the cells, he still wants the 16384k cells to be expensive to make the inf chest.

So why not make the 4096k cells require ZPM circuits instead of LuV and the 16384k require UHV instead of UV. As I said on discord when playing the game from EV to UV you don't need more than 64k cells in your main AE system and 1024k cells in your ore processing system. At least before you have the void miner (for that you use quantum chests and a trashcan) So making the 4096k and 16384k use higher tier circuits wouldn't hurt anyone considering the overall quantity of materiel is already greatly reduced by switching to 1:3 recursivity

[Florexiz]

Full support for reducing prev. tier storage usage to 3. Replacing them entirely with plates makes them stupidly cheap

[Prometheus0000]

The chart was very helpful, thanks. I adjusted the recipes.

The first 4 have 2 components changed to tiered plates.

Then it gets more expensive. Iridium plates and ZPM circuits and voltage. Alt 256k ZPM field gens and americium. Osmium+UV. Neutronium+UHV. Bedrockium+UEV.

So now the lower tiers are reasonable, and the higher ones are masochistic. Which people want, apparently. And you can skip to the 5th one. I think people will use drawer cubes instead though.

[botn365]

should be a recursion of 3 for all of them and for the singles 1(2) plate is to cheap should be 4 compressed plate

for assembler recipes do only 4 circuits and 1 tier processor and no extra fluix

alt recipe is fine but what field gen is that and non alt should at be LuV or less

and al the assembler recipes can be tierded down exept for alt wich should stay zpm

[0lafe]

should put alt recipes in the assline line lapos

[botn365]

alt being assline sounds like a good idea but only the alt

[Prometheus0000]

should be a recursion of 3 for all of them

This is a compromise. Between 0 and 4.

and for the singles 1(2) plate is to cheap should be 4 compressed plate

I don't really see why?

and no extra fluix

How much fluix is extra?

alt recipe is fine but what field gen is that

It says ZPM right under it?

and non alt should at be LuV or less and al the assembler recipes can be tierded down exept for alt wich should stay zpm

Also bot said that while he agrees with the fact that the total quantity of components should be reduced to craft the cells, he still wants the 16384k cells to be expensive to make the inf chest.

I made them expensive for you.

alt being assline sounds like a good idea but only the alt

You can't do that in script, so I don't want to.

should put alt recipes in the assline line lapos

Make a ticket.

[Alexdoru]

Also bot said that while he agrees with the fact that the total quantity of components should be reduced to craft the cells, he still wants the 16384k cells to be expensive to make the inf chest.

I made them expensive for you.

the idea is to make all the recipes cheaper in terms of quantity and then for the last two tiers make them a bit more expensive in a way that it still a bit expensive compared to what is in the game right now

[Alexdoru]

Note : while I think of it, should we apply the same changest to the fluid cells and essentia cells

[joshaup1999]

Note : while I think of it, should we apply the same changest to the fluid cells and essentia cells

Would probably be a smart idea, they’d have the same issue with the recurring crafting. Wouldn’t be hard adjusting them once we have an agreement on the standard recipe

[Alexdoru]

I made it 3:1 recursive crafting and added some tiered metal plates, the 1024k is obtainable after the platline in late IV wich is when you might need it if you have a serious mining addiction.

I also uptiered the circuits for the 4096k and 16384k : now it's ZPM circuits for the 4096k and UHV circuits for the 16384k

[GTNH-Afx237v7]

Oredicted circuits? Guess the components are assembler recipes, or shaped crafting?

[Florexiz]

I made it 3:1 recursive crafting and added some tiered metal plates, the 1024k is obtainable after the platline in late IV wich is when you might need it if you have a serious mining addiction.

I also uptiered the circuits for the 4096k and 16384k : now it's ZPM circuits for the 4096k and UHV circuits for the 16384k

Maybe we should increase tier of used plates? They are too cheap imo In starting circuits

[0lafe]

that's true. up to 64k is too cheap imo. i also think we should go back to LV circuits in 1ks

[johnch18]

I made it 3:1 recursive crafting and added some tiered metal plates, the 1024k is obtainable after the platline in late IV wich is when you might need it if you have a serious mining addiction. I also uptiered the circuits for the 4096k and 16384k : now it's ZPM circuits for the 4096k and UHV circuits for the 16384k

Maybe we should increase tier of used plates? They are too cheap imo In starting circuits

It should be NaqAlloy if we want to keep consistent

[Prometheus0000]

Note : while I think of it, should we apply the same changest to the fluid cells and essentia cells

I have no problem with that later.

I also uptiered the circuits for the 4096k and 16384k

I hate inconsistency.

I made it 3:1 recursive crafting

I still like 2:1 better. And you didn't list any shortcut one, so that makes it still cancerous.

Maybe we should increase tier of used plates? They are too cheap imo

It should be NaqAlloy if we want to keep consistent

Plates should match the tier of circuits, and be the tier material. And replacing steel with naquadah alloy, really? And no tier uses this material in hulls.

i also think we should go back to LV circuits in 1ks

It's supposed to be less expensive, not more.

[botn365]

2:1 would be way to cheap

[Prometheus0000]

Only according to the people posting here recently, who are basically all in the 'I love recursive crafting' club.

[boubou19]

can we have some numbers for the 2:1?

[botn365]

i hate recersion and i see why alexduro wants it and my proposal is keep the 4:1 recursion and have for evry 2 tiers a second recipe that does not use recursion

[Prometheus0000]

Personally I don't understand alex's argument about

With recursive crafting you can keep the cells that you crafted from the beginning and continuously upgrade them as you progress throught the tiers

Just disassemble them? It works, I tried it.

[botn365]

there is somthing fun about being able to upgrade you old parts thats why alt recipes is perfect you can still upgrade old components but making the higest componets doesent need a +100K items

[Prometheus0000]

Please suggest some alt recipes then, because I didn't see you do so?

[Alexdoru]

can we have some numbers for the 2:1?

[Alexdoru]

i hate recersion and i see why alexduro wants it and my proposal is keep the 4:1 recursion and have for evry 2 tiers a second recipe that does not use recursion

My idea is to go with 3:1 recursion and the item on top is up to discussion, I put some random plates as an example. And my idea of 3:1 doesn not exclude at all some one step shortcut recipes, I welcome it

[Prometheus0000]

Personally I'd like 2:1 for the first 4 and 4:1 for the last 4, though if the alt recipes aren't absurd it won't matter.

[Alexdoru]

I also uptiered the circuits for the 4096k and 16384k

I hate inconsistency.

the current recipes are inconsistent, the last tier is UV instead of ZPM.

Also I chose ZPM and UHV for the last two tiers because you only use those when crafting an inf chest, it was to pump up the cost a bit.

[NeroOneTrueKing]

If the cost of the last components has to be high because they're used in the infinity chest... why not add a sub-recipe that is expensive, instead of making the storage components themselves overpriced?

Like, 8x 4096k storage components around a LuV field gen to create one subcomponent, and 8x 16384k storage components around a ZPM field gen to create another subcomponent, and use those subcomponents instead of the normal storage components in the infinity chest recipe. (edit: I actually have no idea if LuV/ZPM field gens make a "reasonable" cost for these; uptier it more if that's too low)

This way, storage component crafting remains consistent even at the highest tiers, while still keeping the price of an infinity chest high.

[Yarntheory]

I would like to note, a 64k ME storage drive stores the same number of items as a storage drawer with 4 emerald upgrades and a void upgrade.

ME storage components should be cheaper, not more expensive. Players should be incentivized to use AE2 for server and game performance.