Correct for controller delay

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1. Run FoFix 3.120 Beta 1 / Run from sources
2. Used Rock Band 2 theme
3. Play a song

What is the expected output? What do you see instead?
Controller response is delayed, affects my hit accuracy greatly.

FoFix 3.120 Beta 1 / Windows XP Pro SP3

This only happens when I play using 3.120 or run from SVN sources. FoFix
3.100 has no problems.

Original issue reported on code.google.com by deathnot...@gmail.com on 28 Apr 2009 at 2:26

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Have you checked the A/V delay? There may be a difference between the two 
versions.

Original comment by lysdestic@gmail.com on 28 Apr 2009 at 3:44

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Other users have mentioned that this is an issue:
http://www.fretsonfire.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37207#p394819

The ability to configure controller-based lag would solve this problem without 
users
having to increase their hit window or intentionally setting their A/V delay 
incorrectly.

Original comment by raynebc on 8 May 2009 at 10:39

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Now that the issue has been better explained in other places, I can see the 
advantage
in controller-based delay settings. My drums are slightly different in terms of
response when compared to my xplorer.

Original comment by lysdestic@gmail.com on 9 May 2009 at 12:38

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If it's wireless, than it definitely lags. The wireless RB2 drums have a decent
amount of lag, but you can still play fine. My big problem is that I'm using an
electric drum set, and that lags a lot. This would be great to have!

Original comment by torma...@gmail.com on 9 May 2009 at 2:41

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I'm not trying to complain, but I would love it if this got some attention from 
the
devs. It's getting really annoying playing drums that are only synced to the 
audio
and not to the video at all. Just a little bit of a delay in the video would 
sync
them up perfectly! 

Thanks!

Original comment by torma...@gmail.com on 9 Jun 2009 at 1:18

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I completely agree, this issue is a major playablity issue that should get 
bumped 
up a bit!  It makes it almost impossible to play guitar & drums together....

Original comment by bvansch...@gmail.com on 9 Jun 2009 at 1:39

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To be clear, the issue is that the audio and video are properly synced, but the 
controller has a delay that is unaccounted for?

I ask because the fix as I am seeing is to have a 'controller delay' - which 
would not fix audio and video being out of sync. (All it would do would be to 
shift the hit window back based on the controller - A/V delay would be handled 
with the A/V delay setting)

Original comment by aked...@gmail.com on 11 Jun 2009 at 9:51

• Changed title: Correct for controller delay
• Changed state: Accepted
• Added labels: Type-Defect, Usability

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That sounds like a good way to tackle the problem.

Original comment by raynebc on 11 Jun 2009 at 11:33

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Been away for awhile.

I found out that this delay only happens when using fofix 3.120~beta1 Patch for
Windows with python 2.6 and pyopengl 3.x. 

I switched to 3.120~beta1 Patch for Windows with python 2.4 and pyopengl 2.x, 
and my
controller works fine, drums and guitar.

To explain the delay with 3.120~beta1 with python 2.6 and pyopengl 3.x clearly:

Yes, Audio and Video is in sync, the problem is when I hit the green button on 
my
guitar controller for example, there is a lag before the green fretbutton 
lights up.
Can A/V delay setting solve this?

Original comment by deathnot...@gmail.com on 19 Jun 2009 at 10:20

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I get lag on any version of FoFiX. It's because I use a midi drum set, which 
causes a
pretty big delay. This lag is pretty much keeping me from being able to enjoy 
FoFiX.
I would really like some more dev attention on this. I think it is a 
considerably
large issue.

Thanks.

Original comment by torma...@gmail.com on 1 Jul 2009 at 8:08

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Issue 894 has been merged into this issue.

Original comment by death.au on 9 Jul 2009 at 6:23

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I really hope this gets recognized. Basically what we need is video lag option. 

As it stands now, with controller or video lag it's somewhat playable but you 
have to
hit the notes around 90MS ahead of when they get to the line. It's confusing and
frustrating

A cheap way of fixing this might be just an option to move the fret button 
sprite up
or down the neck, although I really don't know if that would be easier

An option for normalizing controller lag per instrument would be useful as well,
although only necessary if you switch instruments often and don't feel like 
changing
the lag or playing 2-player. in RB and GH, the game automatically detects the
controller you are using and adds some lag to normalize it with other 
controllers.

Original comment by Adurom...@gmail.com on 11 Sep 2009 at 10:22

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bumping because the game is goddamn unplayable with any of the newest wireless 
hardware

Original comment by Adurom...@gmail.com on 15 Sep 2009 at 10:30

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It's not changing until after 3.120 at the least - it's just too late in the 
process 
to write that much code.

We're aware of the issue. Please don't post useless comments.

Original comment by aked...@gmail.com on 16 Sep 2009 at 1:11

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Please can you add this feature to correct input lag? It's nearly half year 
after
your latest comment and there is already version 3.121.

FoFiX is completely unusable on my HDTV without it (it has big input lag, like 
most
big HDTVs) :-(

Original comment by m.kre...@gmail.com on 20 Jan 2010 at 12:05

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Your HDTV would only count on the AV delay, the controller delay has nothing to 
do
with delay introduced by different kinds of monitors/displays.

Original comment by raynebc on 3 Feb 2010 at 10:41

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raynebc: You are wrong. If you press key and TV has input lag, there will be 
delay 
before you can see result of that event on screen. This is why it is named 
"input 
lag" and this has nothing to do with A/V delay (that's different setting). If 
you 
don't believe me, look at Wikipedie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag

Original Guitar Hero also has setting to compensate input lag and so has 
Performous. 
There simply has to be separate setting for input lag compensation (independent 
of 
A/V delay setting). Without it FoFiX is completely unusable on most big HDTV 
screens 
(sad but true). I am now using Performous instead of FoFiX because of this 
issue. It 
is clearly very critical bug/missing feature.

Original comment by m.kre...@gmail.com on 3 Feb 2010 at 10:58

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I believe you are getting confused about terminology used for FoF.  In Frets on 
Fire,
the difference in time from when the game's audio and the game's video (from a
perfectly synced chart) match up is the AV delay.  If you hook your computer up 
to a
different TV/monitor, then you have to recalibrate the AV delay to compensate.  
Even
the wording of the Wiki article you linked is consistent with what we refer to 
as AV
delay.

This is an issue about a different delay that is introduced by game controllers,
where the response is not perceived as being accurate enough for real time 
play. 
MIDI based drum sets are the most commonly-reported type of controller that has 
this
problem.

Original comment by raynebc on 3 Feb 2010 at 11:34

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Well, maybe I am slightly confused about terminology, but the fact is that 
without 
separate input lag setting and A/V delay setting FoFiX is unplayable on my HDTV.

I don't have this problem on my laptop, so I suppose it is not controller lag. 
Maybe 
it is input lag of my digital Logitech speakers (connected through optical 
SPDIF), but 
the result is same - separate setting for input (or controller) lag and A/V 
delay is 
needed.

Original comment by m.kre...@gmail.com on 3 Feb 2010 at 11:53

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It wouldn't even a useful feature unless you constantly change which monitor or
screen you're playing the game on.  Even then, to be useful, you'd have to be 
able to
create a delay profile for each and every video device you want to use with the 
game.

Your better bet is to just write down which AV delay you find best for each 
screen
you use (ie. your laptop's built-in screen, an external monitor, etc).  Then 
when you
plug in a different monitor and/or speakers, just refer to your notes as to 
which
value to set as the AV delay.

Original comment by raynebc on 4 Feb 2010 at 12:02

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I don't need delay profiles or something like that, I only want FoFiX to work 
on my 
HTPC (which is always connected to same set of speakers and same HDTV screen). 
What 
is needed is simple "controller lag" setting independent of A/V delay setting, 
nothing more. Performous has it and it works great (I am using it now instead 
of 
FoFiX).

akedrou described exactly what is needed in this bugreport more than half year 
ago:

"To be clear, the issue is that the audio and video are properly synced, but 
the 
controller has a delay that is unaccounted for?

I ask because the fix as I am seeing is to have a 'controller delay' - which 
would not fix audio and video being out of sync. (All it would do would be to 
shift the hit window back based on the controller - A/V delay would be handled 
with the A/V delay setting)"

Original comment by m.kre...@gmail.com on 4 Feb 2010 at 12:11

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The controller delay is what I've been talking about this entire time, by the 
way. 
The controller delay, by definition, would not change based on which monitor or
speakers you are using.

Original comment by raynebc on 4 Feb 2010 at 12:20

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You can name it controller delay if you want, I don't care :-) But like I 
demonstrated 
above it is not only lag caused by controller, it can be also caused by digital 
speakers (if you have different input lag of HDTV screen and different input 
lag of 
speakers, you need separate lag compensation just like in case where your 
controller 
has lag).

For example in Performou one setting is named "Audio/controller latency" and 
other is 
"Audio/video latency".

Original comment by m.kre...@gmail.com on 4 Feb 2010 at 12:36

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Here's some visuals that might help clear this up

The problem
http://i47.tinypic.com/lw57l.png
Video lag and controller lag are, at their roots, the same problem. You can 
already
sync up the audio with the fret bar perfectly using the A/V lag calibration, 
but if
you have video or controller lag, the problem is that you can't hit notes that 
are at
the fret bar.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2co28oy.png
Probably the best workaround possible with just a/v calibration. You are forced 
to
strum the note before it gets to the fret bar, which doesn't work very well 
unless
you cover up the bottom of your screen with a piece of cardboard to effectively 
raise
the fret bar

http://i50.tinypic.com/m9adlf.png
video lag and controller lag. How they are different, and how they work

Original comment by Adurom...@gmail.com on 4 Feb 2010 at 1:26

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BUMP!

still not resolved?

Original comment by murraygc...@gmail.com on 26 Aug 2010 at 3:09

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I totally understood what the original poster is getting at.  I believe the 
word to describe controller lag would be "latency".  A quick google will send 
you to numerous programs that will allow you to basically overclock your usb 
ports to a faster pooling rate and/or latency. HOWEVER,
 According to "The USB Man",  (http://www.usbman.com/Guides/VIA%20Tips%20and%20Tricks.html), USB's don't overclock well and before mentioned programs usually result in even lower performance results. Instead He points the finger at the motherboard chipsets, ( VIA in particular ), and offers a plethora of solutions ranging from chipset latency patches, to updated controller drivers, to simple motherboard Bios settings that can enhance your usb latency and get your controllers lag free.
 And when all else fails he offers a sure fire way to beat usb lag by simply buying one of his reccomended brand PCI cards that converts to usb jacks, cutting out the chipest flaws all together.
 I highly reccomend anyone feeling the controller lag crunch to read this page. I think it's safe to say that what we are talking about here is not a fofix/python problem, and instead a "latency" issue that copious amounts of PC owners experience on a regular basis only due to few bios settings or lack of a better chipset driver. 

I would also like to add some info that pertains directly to us that is good to 
know and may also help fix some controller lag issues.   I have used logitech 
bluetooth mouse and keyboard combo's for quite a few years now. There has been 
countless times wherethe mouse was basically unuseable due to lag and/or 
jitters. After much research I learned that bluetooth is on the 2.4 ghz 
frequency, along with cordless phones, wi-fi A-G and earlier revisions 
wireless-n, and of course my Wii strat, and other guitars. Allthough the 
wiimotes are bluetooth, the guitar usb dongles are 2.4 ghz, and I would imagine 
the same goes for PS3 guitars and xbox guitars as well. With all this crap on 
the same channel it doesn't take much to flood it to where devices are taking 
turns waiting in line for some bandwidth.
 I have verified this to be 100% the true cause of my bluetooth mice going haywire sometimes.
 I tested the theory by transferring large files from my laptop (wireless-n) to my home system through my wireless-n router. During large wi-fi transfers my bluetooth mice are all but useless. So if your controller lag is sporadic and offbeat, maybe check the roomates laptops for heavy wi-fi usage IE torrents, or limewire.  Just another possibility for those occasional moments when you're missing notes that you know you're hitting them dead on. We've all had them!   

Again,  The link to the USB Man's solutions is 
http://www.usbman.com/Guides/VIA%20Tips%20and%20Tricks.htm.

Good Luck!  I hope this helps!  =)

Original comment by Tl2AVlSW...@gmail.com on 26 Aug 2010 at 10:51

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my controller is not wireless.... but still theres a big delay...fofix seems 
not to recognize/respond to my controller. i downloaded fofix 3.1 but still the 
same problem...maybe i unknowingly installed something to cause the conflict. 

im plugging my controller on a usb extension port/hub (still usb 2.0 type) 
it works perfectly well on other games (eg. dtxmania..etc.)

maybe ill try plugging it directly to my laptop. ill check if it improves. 
because several months back my controller and fofix 3.120 is working perfectly 
fine.

windows xp 64 bit

Original comment by zrc_pest...@yahoo.com on 28 Nov 2010 at 7:55

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I also have this issue with a my controller.  I have adjusted the AV sync 
correctly but the lag is in the controller.  The controller is about 100-150ms 
behind.  Therefore, if  I put in 150ms AV sync, I can play it near perfect if I 
just listen and do not look at the screen.  However, if I put it on mute and 
try to play just be looking at the screen, I'll miss most of the notes.

Original comment by enric...@gmail.com on 11 Dec 2010 at 7:18

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i tested my controller on fofix 1.21...i used joy2key..(i guess- that means im 
not sure) i guess i could "fool" fofix that the inputs are coming from the 
keyboard, and not from my controller. it seems to work for me.....

Original comment by zrc_pest...@yahoo.com on 31 Dec 2010 at 10:02

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Unless your controller is a MIDI instrument, then it's not likely to help some 
or most of the people that experience this issue.

Original comment by raynebc on 31 Dec 2010 at 10:10

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Hello.  I am running FoFiX v3.121 Final, and I noticed that the A/V delay 
required for vocals is significantly higher than that needed for guitar 
(keyboard), which makes it practically impossible to have a multiplayer game 
with those two instruments.  My suggestion is to give each instrument its own 
configurable A/V delay value, especially microphones.  (As I mentioned here: 
http://www.fretsonfire.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=54053)

Original comment by Sharon.L...@gmail.com on 23 Sep 2011 at 3:42