GrandOrgue freezing in some conditions

[rousseldenis]

I will add some logs in a further message, but for some versions releases, GrandOrgue behavior is weird at launch and at closing (execution during play is ok).

• OS: Ubuntu 22
• GrandOrgue: 3.9.0

Sometimes, GrandOrgue launch does not ... launch GrandOrgue at all.

Sometimes, GrandOrgue closing is causing freezes on some windows (and the OS windows 'GrandOrgue is not responding' is displayed).

[oleg68]

Usually it occures when the audio device is busy (or locked by another application). GrandOrgue waits for it becomes available.

[oleg68]

@rousseldenis Is the problem continues occuring?

[mattrixed]

WIN10

im having the same issue.... no other device connected or application used start Go load organ and nothing... no sound

Sometimes after working ok open browser (system sound set to onboard audio) go back to GO and no audio from 18i20 usb

Have tried RT and PA - same issue

When no audio - go to settings audio and go to change output freezes/crashes GO

[oleg68]

im having the same issue....

@rousseldenis has another issue: Go sometimes hangs on start or stop.

1. Have you installed the 18i20 ASIO driver?
2. Could you post the screenshot of the audio setting page?

[mattrixed]

Ye ok I think mine is more audio exclusive issue although it does hang sometimes on startup or crash without even loading an organ or once the organ is loaded but deeper problem is this audio system and GO taking control and not sharing...... Used to be able to share between system and GO no problem with older versions maybe 3.6++

Yes latest 3.11 Focusrite Control with Asio driver 4.102 Audio settings page std (at work atm) everything set to 24bit 48khz 256 using either Asio PA driver or RT same issue... matched settings in focusrite setup page where you set 48khz 256 etc...

Installed a new computer last night (clean install from scratch on separate ssd) to test using win11 same thing... thought it was going ok and then clicked on start menu (just the start menu) and audio from GO completely cut out.... could hear the blower suddenly stop! Didn't even get to load a browser or something else!!!

I've tried turning off all system sounds - system is set to onboard audio anyway.... Start up a browser or anything much and Go completely drops the audio - have also tried unchecking take exclusive control in sound control panel advanced....

Nothing.... seems to work even on the clean install win 11 just GO focusrite drivers and friesach and touchscreen drivers...!! Feeling deflated - might have to convert over to MAC or linux with same machine (Dell 9020 run everything natively)... run catalina etc.... but i lose my touch screen (old serial type) I don't have the expertise to get running in linux or mac.... ive tried a few times but way over my head!

When it stops like this you can't do anything - go into GO settings to change audio driver or panic or anything it just freezes and locks up - sometimes forceful closing and then restarting GO will work again... but sometimes nothing will revive and full shut down focusrite and system and re-load everything up again to get going for a bit....

[oleg68]

Audio settings page std (at work atm) everything set to 24bit 48khz 256 using either Asio PA driver or RT same issue... matched settings in focusrite setup page where you set 48khz 256 etc...

Please disable all audio ports except RtAudio:asio, exit from th esettings and restart GrandOrgue. After the message that the audio is not available, go to the Audio Settings again and change the audio device to the correct RtAudio/asio device. Then try the sound again.

[mattrixed]

There is no ports at all if you only have rt Audio asio you need the above highrachy RtAudio enabled as well…

[mattrixed]

Still does it loaded sampleset all works… opened browser YouTube (system set to onboard audio) bam dies….

[mattrixed]

Going into settings audio change audio device not that I have any others then freezes and red crashes GO it’s obviously already died….

[mattrixed]

Tried disabling audio focusrite inputs and outputs from within win11 so that system can’t take over or use still no good I kept playing as loading browser and YouTube and about a minute in GO audio dies….. I can then flick to using audio out from focusrite and it plays no problem just GO dead… press a key and still see movement in GO but no sound try to close and just red multiple goes at closing will close it…

startup GO again and use it till it falls over again….

[rousseldenis]

@oleg68 In my case, at first launch, GO still crashes without message (on Ubuntu).

I have a segfault (identified for GO) in logs (I'll try to put them here soon)

[oleg68]

@mattrixed By default ASIO does not allow to use the same audio card from several applications (only "Advanced" sound cards like RME allow this). So I'd make the internal audio as the default audio interface for youtube, browser etc and I'd use Focusrite USB asio only for GrandOrgue.

Otherwise, if you want that all applications to output to the same audio interface, you should use the system mixer as output for GO instead of ASIO. In this case you should disable RtAudio: asio, enable RtAudio: ds and select the RtAudio: ds: Primary Sound Driver.

I don't recommend to use PortAudio because it tries to open all aurio interfaces before opening the appropriate one. Sometimes it causes freases and craches when some device is already in use by another app or by the system mixer.

[oleg68]

@rousseldenis the segfault might be caused by #1249 that has already fixed in 3.9.1.

[mattrixed]

Correct that’s how I’m trying to use it but I can’t even do that anymore… I think progressively getting problematic since 3.6ish

OS system is set to onboard GO to asio focusrite RT

I can’t do anything after a minute of opening a browser or any program it kills GO even tho the other applications do not have access to the focusrite…

it will do it randomly even after a while sitting not even opening another program etc…

I need to use asio as I need all 5 stereo channels from focusrite in my setup

1/2 live pa speakers in room 3/4 balanced feed into mixer usb on separate machine zoom etc 5/6 Yamaha organ stereo input local monitoring up close 7/8 subs 9/10 rear speakers when connected utilised. Etc….

I don’t understand how opening a browser or another program is killing GO when GO is the only thing connected to the focusrite…

[rousseldenis]

@rousseldenis the segfault might be caused by #1249 that has already fixed in 3.9.1.

Did a few tries with 3.9.1, seems solved even if I tried with samples with pedal

[oleg68]

I can’t do anything after a minute of opening a browser or any program it kills GO even tho the other applications do not have access to the focusrite…

Does GO hang or crash? If it craches, could you attach the crash dump here (with the number of GrandOrgue version it belongs to)?

[oleg68]

@rousseldenis

Did a few tries with 3.9.1, seems solved even if I tried with samples with pedal

Do you still have the issue with freeze and crash on startup or shitdown?

[oleg68]

@mattrixed

1. GrandOrgue plays correctly with RtAudio:asio until you launch a browser, doesn't it?
2. Could you select an audio mixer (RtAudio:ds:Primary Sound Driver. I understand that this is not an option for you, but just for testing)? Does GO play with this device? What happens when you launch the browser and youtube?
3. Please attach the crash dump with the exact GO version number.

[rousseldenis]

@rousseldenis

Did a few tries with 3.9.1, seems solved even if I tried with samples with pedal

Do you still have the issue with freeze and crash on startup or shitdown?

Not for the time being but had no intensive testing

[mattrixed]

I can’t do anything after a minute of opening a browser or any program it kills GO even tho the other applications do not have access to the focusrite…

Does GO hang or crash? If it craches, could you attach the crash dump here (with the number of GrandOrgue version it belongs to)?

Unfortunately just hangs and stops audio...

[mattrixed]

@mattrixed

1. GrandOrgue plays correctly with RtAudio:asio until you launch a browser, doesn't it?
2. Could you select an audio mixer (RtAudio:ds:Primary Sound Driver. I understand that this is not an option for you, but just for testing)? Does GO play with this device? What happens when you launch the browser and youtube?
3. Please attach the crash dump with the exact GO version number.

1 sometimes - clean fresh install win11 all i did was click on start menu and it died - i then turned off system alert sounds and it works until you do anything else with computer.... nothing can be touched leave organ for a while and come back to it dead... no audio.... sometimes and yet other times start computer from cold turn on focusrite and run GO dont touch anything else and fine... play for 1/2 hour leave for an hour and come back to console and still works....

2 OK removed all the multi channels - down to simple stereo changed to ds primary - set system output to focusrite had to change buffer to 512 to get rid of crackles and distorted sound.... it works opened browser and played a youtube audio video all works played GO and Youtube at same time no worries...

Thought ok lets get clever changed GO to asio focusrite whilst youtube still playing and all was well - clicked another video as soon as audio stopped from youtube and restarted again lost GO - tried to change and couldn't do anything as hanged.

[mattrixed]

More testing… win11

GO settings back to asio rt and multi output System set to onboard audio cold start, turn everything on in sequence All running ok, fiddle and play around for 20-30mins

Open only explorer to drag over from backup some more samplesets to a folder…copy some more over 10mins press a key GO audio engine gone nothing! Open settings frozen can’t do anything…

🥹

[oleg68]

@mattrixed So there are two configs

• ds in stereo - working
• asio multichannel - not working

Lets find, what causes the problems: asio or multichannels. Could you try another devices, for example, RtAudio ds: Focusrite, PortAudio WDM-KS, PortAudio WASAPI, that provides multichannel capabilities without ASIO?

[mattrixed]

No other drivers give multichannel support.... :-(

Stereo: I will see if asio in stereo works..... PA wasapi just a garbled mess PA WDM-KS works RTAudio DS focusrite works....

[oleg68]

@mattrixed does asio work with stereo or not?

[mattrixed]

Asio in stereo does NOT work either - so its asio thats the issue/conflict somewhere...?

The only asio that i was able to get working was stereo asio onboard audio and system still set to onboard - that worked - had to change buffer to 384 for it to work (GO asked for that specific buffer) which led me to believe it may be a conflict of buffer settings.... even tho the focusrite and onboard are separate - I set it back to RT asio stereo focusrite with system onboard with the higher buffer and it did work for some time but then failed as well after 3rd or 4th video.....

Tested asio focusrite again this morning before racing to work and it failed again quite quickly ....

[oleg68]

@mattrixed I've a lot of testing with GO 3.9.1 and ASIO on Windows 10.

I have two sound cards with ASIO support: Asus Xonar Essence 7.1 PCIe and Emu 0204 USB. The first provides 8 channels and the last provides 4 channels.

Like your focusrite, emu is multichannel capable only with asio.

When GrandOrgue is the only application that uses ASIO, it works perfectly with either xonar or emu. I tried to run browsers, youtube etc, and GrandOrgue continued working.

But when I started another application also using ASIO, even with another sound card, GO had some troubles. It couldn't start; if it had already started it couldn't change the sound card etc. It hung on attempt to enumerate asio devices or on attempt to close the current device. GrandOrgue just hung and has never crashed.

The workaround I found is to use jack instead of asio. It also supports multichannel.

Could you try this workaround?

1. Download and install the latest Jack Audi Connection Kit from https://jackaudio.org/downloads/
2. Run qjackctl and Setup. There select your focusrite asio device, set the necessary bps and buffer size
3. Click on Run and check that jack can start.
4. Then remove the libjack64.dll from the GrandOrgue/bin directory. The shipped one has vrong version, so the dll from the jack installation will be used.
5. Stop jack by clicking Stop on qjackctl.
6. Run GrandOrgue and change the device to Jack Native. The Jack sound port should be enabled. Provide as many channels as necessary.
7. Click OK. You will receive an error message that jack server is not running.
8. Run jack on qjackctl.
9. Click on Panic in GrandOrgue. It will retry to connect with jack. If it hangs, then you haven't remove the libjack64.dll
10. Now click to Graph button on qjackctl and connect ports of GrandOrgueOutput to System with a mouse.
11. Try to play GrandOrgue and to start another applications.
12. If everything works, you can automate starting qjackctl, running jack, start GrandOrgue and connecting ports using the PatchBay feature of qjackctl.

[mattrixed]

Oleg,

Thankyou for your help.
Unfortunately Jack did not work - if anything worse as extra layers of things to run and audible continuous every second sound when freezed. I play 3 services a week and managed to get asio to run touched nothing and got through a service - nothing touched and came back to console dead..... nothing was touched nothing just GO running..... didn't even have to open browser!!!..... force quit from freezing opened and loaded again to get prepped for next service.... challenging!!!

Im at a loss - so i swapped over to linux managed to get touchscreen to work (albeit need to run a script to enable each start don't know how to do that....).

I'm now also not getting anywhere with linux over on a separate machine right now and linux ubuntu 22.04.1 with GO 3.9.1 it does the sim/same thing and even before that can't even run it as per Rousseldenis soon as loads quits - go to load organ quits also when loaded organ does load click on window to move it it quits.... I had it running for a while at very start albeit glitchy couldn't get rid of glitches RT(a lot higher latency in linux than windows doubled) or PA and different buffers.... but now can't even run GO.....!! Just quits...

I have all these installations on seperate ssd so can test anything when new versions come out or fixes.... Will try and get touchscreen working with mac... catalina... dont like my chances!

[oleg68]

@mattrixed

if anything worse as extra layers of things to run

A asked you to try jack just for test: is the problem somewere in GO-ASIO interface or not? Could you confirm that GrandOrgue freezes with jack too?

[mattrixed]

Oleg thankyou - yes thats what i have stated as per above;

Jack did not work - it freezes also - worse in a way as it holds onto a note and plays it garbled every second once GO freezes....!!!

There really has to be something to do with upgraded RT/PA asio interaction drivers...

This all worked flawlessly back at GO 3.6 or therabouts.... also all your ones before this amalgamation into this one on github... There was a change wasn't there with the audio drivers we didn't have RT before for eg....!?

Im really not needing to run browsers and multiple things at once thats just what we are using to cause/show the issue for testing but as stated even nothing touched/run another system program or anything after a while it dies also like it does quickly with opening a browser and something audio on completely separate sound device....

[oleg68]

Jack did not work - it freezes also - worse in a way as it holds onto a note and plays it garbled every second once GO freezes....!!!

1. Does GO start working with jack just after launching GO? Or it freazes immediately?
2. If it works some time, does multichannel work?
3. How does GO freaze exactly? Is the main GrandOrgue menu responsible? Is the Log Messages window appeared? If so, what is it's content?
4. Does Panic work when GrandOrgue freases?

There really has to be something to do with upgraded RT/PA asio interaction drivers... This all worked flawlessly back at GO 3.6

But GO 3.6 has the same version of the drivers (RT 5.2.0, PA 19.7.0) as the recent version have.

The following changes might occure after 3.6 that broke the asio compatibility

1. In your environment (ex upgrading OS, setting up additional devices and so on)
2. In the build environment (ex. different versions of the mingw compiler or the libraries). Especially #1127 might bring something.
3. In the source GO code.

Let's exclude these options one by one and start with 1. Could you try to download 3.6.0 and test it: does it still work or not? If it works, please try to find the first version that stopped working.

For the faster testing I'd suggest to download .zip instead of .exe, unpack them into some directories and run GO from them without installing.

[mattrixed]

Jack; 1 works good albeit how to keep graph connection? Doing anything resets and doesn’t keep setting even panic resets graph 2 yes multi works 3 just in the time of typing 1 and 2 out lost audio midi still receiving keystrokes no sound graph still intact didn’t even have time to open browser ; like I Have reported it will sometimes freeze with no other programs, apps or interaction No log messages Grande org menu, responsible, click on settings instantly freezes, same as non-Jack interface 4 no always goes to freezed (not responding) msg in console red x

[mattrixed]

3.6 No good start browser even faster freeze the second audio starts loses GO audio Close browser press panic instant not responding 3.5 no good either Asia rt

3.44 Rt Asio doesn’t work nor PA

OK so basically nothing works giving up trying different versions. Have a thought about latest focusrite Asio drivers! Will try older Asio focusrite drivers 100% this all used to work!

Regardless of this not working I can live with not touching browser etc but this fault still does it randomly without opening browser or another app GO will just lose audio….

searching hard drive for grandorgue have found a large amount of folders in program data Microsoft windows WER report archive there’s a lot of app hanging files there they are extension.WER are are they useful at all to look at?

[mattrixed]

Version=1 EventType=AppHangB1 EventTime=133129932207550390 ReportType=3 Consent=1 UploadTime=133129932240415257 ReportStatus=268435456 ReportIdentifier=b909ecf2-9d0d-4f03-9962-210f8e97f9c0 IntegratorReportIdentifier=4cbf9404-d690-409c-9a82-11938826d418 Wow64Host=34404 NsAppName=GrandOrgue.exe OriginalFilename=GrandOrgue.exe AppSessionGuid=000025a8-0001-0008-ade8-e18af1f8d801 TargetAppId=W:0006c9f4c20793c83fae7debae6a43322c3d00000904!0000c8b369a2403e2ad64f6548e1068b8130df391c19!GrandOrgue.exe TargetAppVer=1970//01//01:00:00:00!35302d!GrandOrgue.exe BootId=4294967295 TargetAsId=209 UserImpactVector=269484304 IsFatal=1 EtwNonCollectReason=1 Response.BucketId=035f81edefad7c198ea24782bb839b90 Response.BucketTable=5 Response.LegacyBucketId=2207405394182249360 Response.type=4 Sig[0].Name=Application Name Sig[0].Value=GrandOrgue.exe Sig[1].Name=Application Version Sig[1].Value=3.9.1.0 Sig[2].Name=Application Timestamp Sig[2].Value=00000000 Sig[3].Name=Hang Signature Sig[3].Value=b524 Sig[4].Name=Hang Type Sig[4].Value=134217728 DynamicSig[1].Name=OS Version DynamicSig[1].Value=10.0.22000.2.0.0.256.48 DynamicSig[2].Name=Locale ID DynamicSig[2].Value=3081 DynamicSig[22].Name=Additional Hang Signature 1 DynamicSig[22].Value=b524664a93c5ac8fc7258faf2edec33a DynamicSig[23].Name=Additional Hang Signature 2 DynamicSig[23].Value=0dc2 DynamicSig[24].Name=Additional Hang Signature 3 DynamicSig[24].Value=0dc2ab08bcc91181fc6175d86cadf42a DynamicSig[25].Name=Additional Hang Signature 4 DynamicSig[25].Value=b524 DynamicSig[26].Name=Additional Hang Signature 5 DynamicSig[26].Value=b524664a93c5ac8fc7258faf2edec33a DynamicSig[27].Name=Additional Hang Signature 6 DynamicSig[27].Value=0dc2 DynamicSig[28].Name=Additional Hang Signature 7 DynamicSig[28].Value=0dc2ab08bcc91181fc6175d86cadf42a UI[3]=Virtual Pipe Organ Software is not responding UI[4]=If you close the program, you might lose information. 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[oleg68]

how to keep graph connection? Doing anything resets and doesn’t keep setting even panic resets graph

qjackctl hast the Patchbay button. It allows to describe the connection graph, to save it into a file or to load saved graph from the file. Once the garaph is activated, qjackctl automatically detects appearence of the port names and connect them. So when you click on Panic or even restart GrandOrgue, the graph connection will be restored automatically. It may be used for tests.

If GrandOrgue is responsible, but the sound doesn't reappear after Panic or restarting GrandOrgue, so the problem is not between GO and Jack but somewhere between Jack and Asio.

You can assure that the problem doesn't appear if Jack is running against another driver rather than against asio.

[oleg68]

searching hard drive for grandorgue have found a large amount of folders in program data Microsoft windows WER report archive there’s a lot of app hanging files there they are extension.WER are are they useful at all to look at?

I don't know how to use them.

[mattrixed]

You can open them with notepad they just contain all that as per post above I don’t think helpfull just that it hanged…

[mattrixed]

Well I had some progress I say had because it’s all in an horrible mess again…. In some respects worse! I’ve given up and gone to bed to write this…

I uninstalled everything and started from scratch

Older 4.65 focusrite asio driver (it defaulted to 192 buffer…) GO 3.4.4 Tested with built in sampleset made all changes to multi channel etc 192 buffer even 48khz to match the focusrite…. Everything like 👍 need it…

it worked! Both rt and pa (slightly confused as didn’t think rt till 3.6 etc…. But any way works! Open browser play anything works simultaneously like it used to! Wow finally some progress! Pushed it even further by setting system to the focusrite and still worked - change videos play GO all at the same time! Couldn’t get it to fall over even hot swapping all on the fly changing from rt to Pa works. Didn’t remember to test Friesach

ok so I thought great it’s the focusrite asio drivers I’ll install latest 3.9.1 same again all works yay! I then thought right load up Friesach (video playing in background I think through the focusrite - so new here here it falls over and does the usual freeze ok I thought that’s stretching it too far change system back to onboard restart GO load up Friesach and somewhere here notice that buffer has in focusrite app changed to 384 ahh now I remember the issue or problem with these older drivers set it to something start Go and it instantly changes to 384 strange so from here it all goes down hill and doesn’t work….

uninstall go delete config reset natal 3.4.4 and problem follows set buffer again in windows app to 192 open go instantly changes to 384 auto loads sampleset and dies hangs (Go is set to 192 and forgot to turn off auto load) turn everything off setup again same thing won’t work can’t even open go as soon as it loads it makes sound from default sampleset and dies….

far out!

will delete config and try again….

why did it work flawlessly? Even in new version 3.91 - even loaded Friesach and into testing it died worked for a while the before greedy test simultaneous….

what I don’t get is replicate settings and everything back when worked and it doesn’t work again….!!!

so tired!

[oleg68]

May be GO works when it's buffer equals to the asio app buffer and does not work when they differ?

Try to set 384 in GO with the old asio driver.

[mattrixed]

Currently running ok at old focusrite asio driver and go and asio app at 384 3.44 and now upgraded to 3.9.1 still working fine haven’t opened browser yet with system still set to onboard Running multi and friesach….

such a funny feeling I don’t want to muck it up and open it - ok works run 2 videos with onboard whilst GO still running in background…..

so even though I have always matched app and GO at 256 this system chose 192, but then had issues and went to 384 grandorgue was still running 192 and system perhaps at 384 causing major issues having go and system now at 3:84 using PA drivers all seems to work, I will try swapping to RT drivers - yes still works

makes me wonder about the newer focusrite drivers and setting everything to 384 but for now I’ll leave it too much trauma!

‘so there’s obviously still some funny things going on as you were able to replicate buffers asio and onboard interaction not playing nice under certain settings…

[oleg68]

I think 192 is the root cause that brings the problem. I hope 384 will work with the latest asio and GO too.

It is possible that the latest asio allows to leave 192 but it works unstable with this buffer size. I think it was a reason why the old asio forced settings to 384.

If you want to reduce latency, you can try to leave 384 and to set 96000 instead of 48000.

[oleg68]

@mattrixed could you confirm that GO 3.9.1 works with the latest asio driver at 384?

[mattrixed]

Just uninstalled old asio drivers and restarted and installed new ones

system set to onboard You can’t set 384 in app you only have it’s detected 192 or every normal numeral selection ie 128 256 512 1024 - I selected 512 and made appropriate settings in GO….

instant fail as soon as opened YouTube literally heard the blower/ambient noise die…

[oleg68]

Does 3.9.2 work stable with the old focusrite asio at 384?

[oleg68]

‘so there’s obviously still some funny things going on as you were able to replicate buffers asio and onboard interaction not playing nice under certain settings

Unfortunally the ASIO Api does not provide any way for determining the buffer size. It allows a program to request any buffer and ASIO may accept or reject it. So if GO requests 192 and ASIO accepts it, GO is only capable to rely on 192 and it cann't know that the systes was switched to 384. In this case the asio driver should convert 192->384 internally, but it seems does not do it correctly. So the problem is on the focusrite/asio side and I cann't fix it on the GrandOrgue side.