(DISCUSSION) - Any basic ideas to add to HackWars

[bcoe]

I don't have a list of GitHub usernames of people who have been actively involved in HackWars development over the years, and I'm not sure who might still be interested in contributing.

Comment on this issue, and let me know if you'd like to be part of the HackWars org; let's start bouncing some ideas around.

[BWHale1000]

Heyo! It's Beowulf1000 here. I would definitely like to help in any way I can on the new development of HackWars. I was not involved with any of the actual development or implementation of updates, etc. But, I am still a semi active and faithful player of HackWars. I've been around the old community and the new one, but not the really old community most HackWars players reminisce about. I can't say I can help with any programming or implementation but I can manage people very well, or get support for said projects, and try to be an overall joy to the people I play and/or work with to make everything go by a little bit smoother. Not much else to say so I hope more people are going to be serious about this and kick things into gear for you :)

[jdog141176]

hello there, jdog141176 here, was never apart of the making/development of hackwars but i would very much like to help any way possible, even if that means i have to learn a programming language lol, i am a faithful hackwars player and as beowulf, have been around the new community and some of the "old" community too, not as much as him though... as i said, i'd very much love to help any way possible :)

[imsaeed]

I'd help but my knowledge is limited as well as mainly web. xD

[bcoe]

@imR3boot, @jdog141176, @BWHale1000 I would love all of your help!

I'm less concerned about programming ability, and more interested in starting a discussion about gameplay -- what would people like to see out of a new open-source version of HackWars? Some initial thoughts on my mind:

• I think it should start simple.
• Programming should still be a game mechanic, but I like the idea of using JavaScript.
• Should we have some fort of world you can walk around in (think rogue or Final Fantasy?).

Shall we open some more tickets to start this discussion?

[imsaeed]

I don't really know about "walking around" in the game. I do like the idea of the desktop more, although adding a feature as spoken of would be one of a kind and that could be good for the game.

[jonpchin]

I want to help. I agree it should start simple. No 3D avatar stuff please.

[jdog141176]

i'd like to see better/more functions allowed with better restrictions.. walking around? how would that be worked in to a game like this though, hmm... when you said walking around, i thought of watchdogs right away

[jonpchin]

I think it would be kind of cool to have a text based version of hackwars. Something like Slavehack but with a programming language such as Hackscript(like in hackwars), the "Hackscript" should be similar to C syntax. We can call it something else besides Hackscript if we want a cooler name. To implement this new Hackwars 2 text based version I suggest Javascript and another back end programming language such as PHP/Python with a database of some sort like MySQL.

[jdog141176]

well "Programming should still be a game mechanic, but I like the idea of using JavaScript" that being said... and also most if not all websites have a back end language such as php.. also with bcoe's permission i would like to open a ticket just for ideas on the game

[jdog141176]

well, on a positive side, i'm gonna try some of the game engines out and see what i can come up with for an rpg style with walking around enabled, maybe we can actually make it work, different houses/places as networks, need a wifi enabled device and or a hotspot.. Coffee shop (starting out place, ofcourse would need to move around to do better hacks maybe? and also a risk of you getting kicked out and or jailed aswell??). Park (would require hotspot or something like..) just some idea's floating around the empty head of mine :P :100:

[jonpchin]

If we are going to do walking around then I don't mind a 2D map like in Final Fantasy 2. Or are we talking about something more advanced?

[jdog141176]

something simple for now i'd hope, because i can't do 3D though im sure i could learn how to in a couple months

[BWHale1000]

Okay I have a couple ideas(maybe just this one) that you guys can toss around. You guys talk about "walking around" in this new open source hacking game being developed. I don't think there should be any form of walking around such as a character walking on a map or visiting cities or towns or server rooms or anything like that because of the nature of the game: hacking. You don't move around so much when you are hacking per say, but you are in a single remote location trying to access various things whatever it may be. The only reason moving to places for hacking is involved is if it is proprietary technology that is off the grid or requires you to physically be there in order to access anything. For the "walking around" bit I think one principle should be in mind. Movement. Not just movement on a map as mentioned above, but networking. In the old game all you had to do was click and BOOM, you've switched networks and now can farm those NPCs. That is not how it should be if the idea of changing networks is to be implemented in this new hacking game. I have been working for a WISP company for about two and a half years now and am just getting into running the backbone of the network and everything involved from there on with the current network administrator. There are SO many options for networking it is hard to even think about making people understand it, but I think there are some key elements in networking that can really make HackWars 2.0 a very unique game that is challenging and ever-evolving. There are different layers to networking and there are different protocols that can be used to access different parts of a network. Not only is there that, but you have to have the hardware to handle said protocols, whatever they may be. I think it's a very positive step and key point to the new HackWars. Please ask away as I just did this after work and can easily add some #EDITS or answer any questions.

[jdog141176]

so maybe add like just a store that only accepts cash? kind of like ali in a sense i guess.. and a more realistic environment would be good for this type of game :P idk, my ideas atm are very slim, in GTA mind set for the past couple days lol

[bcoe]

@jdog141176 yes please! let's start opening some specific tickets. With regards to programming as a mechanic, I'm thinking we could lean heavily on this:

https://github.com/bcoe/sandcastle

at least for prototyping, looking forward we might want to build a parser again -- for security reasons (it's fairly hard to fully sandbox a JavaScript VM).

[jonpchin]

@bcoe , by chance have you heard of the new browser MMO programming game called Screeps? I encountered the website about 1 month ago and it was in beta. The reason why I bring it up is because it just dawned on me just now that they have a very similar game idea to ours. They also seem to be using Javascript for their API.

[jdog141176]

@jonpchin not similar in any way... only thing thats close is the programming aspect... its not a hacking simulation at all

[zinapse]

Hey! I used to play HackWars a long time ago, sad to see it's been discontinued... I would love to help start up a new fork of it. I'm a programmer, mostly on the web side (HTML, PHP, JS, etc...) but I do know a lot of desktop languages (C/C++, C#.NET, Java) and could help with any (and/or all) of those! :)

[bcoe]

I had an epiphany today, all HackWars would really need for a game world would be rouge-style graphics!

• it makes quests way more fun to have some aspect of physicality to them, it also makes player interactions more fun.
• it has a cool retro feel, which I think suits HackWars -- it would inform the rest of the game's style.
• it doesn't require an army of animators.

Here's a vision I have that's starting to take shape:

• It's an RPG, you have a set of skills similar to HackWars 1.0 (attack, banking, etc), we introduce a few more real-world skills (lock-picking, which might be needed to find a hidden WiFi network).
• We get rid of much of the attack UI, in favor of a more unixy feel -- I like the idea that more would be done with terminal commands ... want to see how an attack or defense is going? ps -aux or pgrep attacks.
• there's a rouge-esque world to walk in. There are some amazing 2D JavaScript game engines we could use to pull this off.
• you have a computer you upgrade throughout the game.
• programming is still an important play mechanic.

[jdog141176]

well, let's just say, im in love with these idea's!!!!! lock-picking could maybe be, cracking (cracking/lock picking skill will let you crack higher encrypted networks, while having a computer you need to upgrade to decrease the time needed to decrypt at the same time, making both work together) as for unix commands, that would be awesome but would definitely require a wiki :P as not many know unix commands

[jonpchin]

I like a lot of those ideas. I am actually a big fan of MUD style games.

[thmsndk]

I conceptually don’t like the idea of a 2d world being a “core” feature of the game, I still think the emphasis should be more like a hacking simulator maybe not like uplink and the other sims out there but along those lines.

I played the original hackwars for a while and the following concepts I really enjoyed.

• Multiplayer
• Being able to write my own scripts/programs
• Being able to set up automated defenses / process that could react to events.
• Being able to modify/hack other players and their system to do my bidding
• Being able to snoop around npc/player systems and discover a story.

I quickly began trying to get out of the hackwars sandbox engine, being able to push information out on the “real” internet and react to data outside the game, I managed to do so aswell, the reason being I wanted to store data in a database and wanted to see stats, collect data and in generally automate some things based on that data.

I’d like the new version to expand more on writing my own scripts/programs aswell as being able to programmatically automate aspects of the game.

Map/Physicality: While I don’t conceptually like the idea of a 2d map as a core feature, I do like the possibilities it could bring.

“real-world” skills like lock-picking and hidden wifi networks sounds pretty cool.

The following feature set could be pretty cool in a “map” in my oppinion.

• Virtual Lockpicking
• Spawn points (cofee shop)
• Points of interest (quests?/interesting places)
• Being able to “place/install” servers / wi-fi and other “virtual hardware” in locations
• Having to physically be at “the computer / hardware” to perform upgrades, or perhaps have other players do it for you could be an idea aswell?
• Virtual trashcan exploration for thrown out documents and other “social engineering” concepts

Having a dwarf fortress / mud / 2d world open for expansion could be pretty interresting aswell.

Perhaps introduce alternate reality, like googles Ingress? and use the “actual” world as the map?

I’d love to contribute to this project in any shape, way or form that I can, I haven’t really worked on any open-source project before.

[imsaeed]

Virtual Bump. Anyone still alive on this?

[jonpchin]

I am still alive.

[imsaeed]

Do you know if you or anyone else intends to continue this?

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message -------- From: Jonathan Chin notifications@github.com Date: 3/14/17 20:36 (GMT-06:00) To: HackWars/docs docs@noreply.github.com Cc: Shane Van Gorder rokon.1@live.com, Mention mention@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [HackWars/docs] (DISCUSSION) - Any basic ideas to add to HackWars (#1)

I am still alive.

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[BWHale1000]

I am still here and waiting, still nothing else out there even close to what HackWars was, or what it will be.

[Autsider666]

Another bump, just to show that there are still people hoping for something like HackWars to rise again! I've been making small HW prototypes over the past decade and I'm not gonna stop till I get it right or till there's actually someone actually capable working on it! :D

[jonpchin]

I am currently invested in a big project right now but I want to do this at some point in my lifetime. I am adding it to my backlog.

Edit: Its been 8 years since I posted on this thread but I gained a lot of programming/software and business skills since then so its actually making this Hackwars 2 project success chance increase when I do start working on this.

Edit Two: Also waiting has another advantage in that we can ride a a popular technology that comes out in the near future. If we started this project a few years ago someone may have tried to incorporate blockchain/crypto (big mistake, just look at all the crypto scams, rugpulls and SEC lawsuits) into Hackwars 2. Now blockchain/crypto hype has passed and it is AI/chatgpt that is popular. I say we skip the AI hype and wait until something more interesting shows up unless someone has a good idea/vision with AI/chatgpt/current technology or if someone is willing to invest money/bring in an investor.

Edit Three: If one is seriously thinking about remaking HackWars into Hackwars 2 today, just a remake with the same mechanics as the original HackWars, and nothing new (since old HackWars was done in Java and required outdated Java to be installed in the browser), I recommend doing the backend in Golang (Golang is great for webservers and comes with everything you need out of the box) and frontend in JavaScript/HTML/CSS.

The player base for this game I think is niche because it appeals to programmers/hackers. Not sure how to commercialize this with such a small market size. It may just have to be open source created by hobby developers who just have a passion for this. Or if one can execute a viral marketing strategy like how Wordle succeeded then it might make sense for a small team to close source and try to commercialize. I am not too well versed in creating a programming language which this game will require but am interested to learn when I get the time. It would be cool if we could make the in game language something like JavaScript and/or Golang.