In lobby, show the level of in-progress games...

[cjwomack]

It would be great for spectators to know what level the games are. For learning purposes etc...

[Zamiell]

yeah thats coming soon (tm)

[DrAnax]

2214

[Zamiell]

i want to make your hyphenated level tied to your user account, which will also be stored in the database, and can't be set arbitrarily. once this is in place, the level of in-progress games can be determined automatically

[DarthGandalf]

How the level will be set?

[Zamiell]

you type /advancelevel or something along those lines, while providing 5 replays of perfect scores you got using only N level related conventions, and then i manually promote you one level

[DarthGandalf]

are you really going to review all these games manually?

[Zamiell]

yes, if it is too much then i will delegate a secondary admin

[DarthGandalf]

what's wrong with setting it arbitrarily?

[Zamiell]

it's been demonstrated repeatedly over the last N years that people are generally unable to correctly assess their own level

[timotree3]

I thought the recommendation was the achieve a perfect score in which you made the best move on every turn, not just achieve a perfect score.

[Zamiell]

sure

[HelanaAsh]

Need this feature. Thank you, Takis <3

Also upgrade me to lvl 24.

[Zamiell]

everyone will start at level 1 (unfortunately)

[HelanaAsh]

how is one lvl 1 player be qualified to judge another lvl 1 player?

[Zamiell]

i dont understand the question

[HelanaAsh]

If everyone starts at lvl 1, who is qualified to judge the advancement?

[Zamiell]

me + whichever purple people volunteer to help, when the system is in place

[HelanaAsh]

imo purple people in your own words, are not people with higher skill-set, but are those who have been around longer. So no, you or purple people are not qualified for judging other people.

[Zamiell]

you seem to be criticizing a system by which some people judge other people, but don't seem to be offering a specific alternative

[jack67889]

Should definitely be an opt-in feature. I would like to opt-out in advance, I feel no need to be judged. If anyone would like to be judged, let them opt-in.

[Zamiell]

if you want to opt out, then you will remain at level 1

[Zamiell]

or, i guess you could uncheck the hyphenated box to be level undefined, but then you wouldn't be able to play with the extra hyphen-ated features

[HelanaAsh]

good question. I think you are creating a culture where self-proclaimed elititists judge common folk without supplementing skills to show for. I think we are all adults here, and we know what is best for us. I have been playing hanabi for about 6 years online, with tens of thousands of games to show for. No, you are not qualified to judge me as lvl 1 player or lvl 24, only I can judge my skill. This should be an optional, opt-in feature.

[jack67889]

if you want to opt out, then you will remain at level 1

That seems a rather random and confusing starting point. Why don't you go to lvl 1 after the first round of scrutiny?

[Zamiell]

I think you are creating a culture where self-proclaimed elititists judge common folk without supplementing skills to show for

when a teacher gives a test to a student to see if they are ready to move from grade 3 to grade 4 math, is that creating a culture of elitism? no, it isn't.

maybe a more accurate analogy is how a karate instructor awards a yellow belt to a karate enthusiast who is currently at a green belt level when they have demonstrated that they have mastered the concepts of yellow. is that creating a culture of elitism? what if anyone could just join a karate gym and declare themselves to be a red belt after a few days of training?

maybe your response to that is: "That's stupid Zamiel, no-one would do that." The problem is that in real life, in the Hyphen-ated group, we have exactly this happening. As I've said above, new hyphenated members have utterly failed over and over again in being able to self-diagnose their correct playing level. so this is a mechanism to correct that.

as for the "without supplementing skills" part of your complaint, you'll have to be more specific. i certainly have the skills to judge levels 1 through 23, and no-one has even volunteered yet to help, so i am uncertain as to who you are referring to here.

[DarthGandalf]

Maybe noone volunteers to help because noone agrees with this idea?

Is self-judging to the wrong level that big issue that you need to enforce everyone to be level 1, and judge everyone?

[Zamiell]

Why don't you go to lvl 1 after the first round of scrutiny?

Is self-judging to the wrong level that big issue that you need to enforce everyone to be level 1, and judge everyone?

one alternative is to let existing players self-select their own level, and then have new players be judged from that point. however, i don't think that is a very fair solution.

the most unbiased thing is to start everyone from the same spot

[jack67889]

So again, why would that be lvl 1 instead of no label?

[Zamiell]

on second though i guess the default level should be level 0, and then you can request being level 1 (instead of the default being level 1, and you can request being level 2)

in that system, you could treat level 0 as undefined

[HelanaAsh]

I think you are creating a culture where self-proclaimed elititists judge common folk without supplementing skills to show for

when a teacher gives a test to a student to see if they are ready to move from grade 3 to grade 4 math, is that creating a culture of elitism? no, it isn't.

maybe a more accurate analogy is how a karate instructor awards a yellow belt to a karate enthusiast who is currently at a green belt level when they have demonstrated that they have mastered the concepts of yellow. is that creating a culture of elitism? what if anyone could just join a karate gym and declare themselves to be a red belt after a few days of training?

maybe your response to that is: "That's stupid Zamiel, no-one would do that." The problem is that in real life, in the Hyphen-ated group, we have exactly this happening. As I've said above, new hyphenated members have utterly failed over and over again in being able to self-diagnose their correct playing level. so this is a mechanism to correct that.

as for the "without supplementing skills" part of your complaint, you'll have to be more specific. i certainly have the skills to judge levels 1 through 23, and no-one has even volunteered yet to help, so i am uncertain as to who you are referring to here.

This analogy is incorrect because you are doing people who have been around longer a disfavor. And just because you are "older" doesn't mean you can assume a teacher role.

The reference document exists so people can follow, learn and practice up to the levels they have read, and because they mistakes within the levels they have read, doesnt mean we can critically judge them and force them to play lower levels, if anything, they need more practice on the said level to become proficient. People can judge their levels based on their progression in the doc. And none of us are beyond errors to be critical of others. None of you, least of all, mostly retired, elite, purple players.

As I've said above, new hyphenated members have utterly failed over and over again in being able to self-diagnose their correct playing level. so this is a mechanism to correct that. Can you present me historical data of games in the recent past where you have played with new people consistently and find them to have failed the said level?

[Zamiell]

force them to play lower levels

I think the language has to be tweaked here. If you are level 3, no-one is stopping you from agreeing with your teammates before the game starts to play with level 5 conventions, regardless what the website reports. You are implying a level of coercion where none exists.