Closed Ble43 closed 1 year ago
Here are some more thoughts on this:
It seems to be a question of: Does a Hot Hand, Ashen Catalyst Lava Lash justify overlapping maelstrom? What about if it's not a hot handed or the Ashen Catalyst Stacks arent maxed? If you have Ice Strike up for the next Frost Shock, how does that change things?
It's not just Hailstorm build, the same thing applies to anything else using hot hand. Both Lava Lash and Crash Lightning are too high on the priority list, and/or both Frost Shock and Chain Lightning are too low.
These are assertions that require data. If you think shifting their positions in the priority would be more optimal, then sim yourself, shift their positions in the priority, and sim again and show the difference.
@Hekili I have no idea how to do that, but I know your team does this on a regular basis
or if given instructions I'm happy to try
Is this the line that is causing confusion?
talent.molten_assault.enabled & dot.flame_shock.ticking & ( active_dot.flame_shock < active_enemies ) & active_dot.flame_shock < 6
I'm guessing it's recommending Lava Lash until you spread enough Flame Shocks to equal the active targets? I know that's best practice but may not always be possible based on range etc.
@Hekili What was done with this ticket?
I haven't found anything productive in sims with moving Frost Shock up in priority. The addon should more aggressively spend on Lightning Bolt with Primordial Wave, but I haven't been able to generate any sim profiles that benefit from otherwise burning Maelstrom faster or moving Frost Shock and Ice Strike up in priority.
@Hekili Thank you for the detail. Just to confirm, did you only test moving Frost shock and Ice strike, or did you test moving Chain Lightning up too? This is really about the priority of Chain Lightning in Multi-target situations when using the FS build.
If you use this image, the idea is that you would
add a Chain Lightning either in between 3 and 4 OR 4 and 5 If target count >= 5 (possibly could work for anything 2+ targets, would have to sim) and maelstrom stacks = 10.
Following the new Chain Lightning Priority ->If Hailstorm stacks = 10, Ice Strike
Finally, you'd add a New priority for Frost Shock below the Ice Stike, -> If Hailstorm stacks = 10, Frost Shock
Then the Primordial wave priority
This help alleviates some maelstrom waste that is going on with the primordial wave right now.
If you tested this, or something very similar to this I'm happy to rest, but just want to make sure.
Additionally, I know you're busy but if you'd have some time to help teach a man fish so I don't have to bother you with this kind of stuff and can just submit proven rotation suggestions, I'd gladly take the teachings.
Appreciate your hard work.
Here's a sample of what you described (or it's nearest equivalent). The sim actually has Crash Lightning above the Lightning Bolt with PW active.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aXGdQdDmYKhPDJAK53yLy4/simc
In the bar charts, Hekili
is my Enhancement Shaman. CL
is the same character but with Chain Lightning added basically where you described. CLandISandFrS
is that with your Ice Strike and Frost Shock changes also included. You can see that CLandISandFrS
can have higher top-end damage, but less damage on average and less damage on your priority boss target, generally speaking.
You can modify this example and sim it in Raidbots in the Advanced section. You'll want to use Patchwerk with 5+ targets to test what you're describing. Generally speaking, you can move lines up and down as you see fit, run the sim again, and see if you end up with more DPS.
Here's another version where I tested moving Elemental Blast up above Chain Lightning along with your other changes.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wK6eFmPyu4LoW6RvGFkVRs/simc
This one starts to be persuasive, given that overall DPS is comparable and priority target floor isn't too low and top-end is reasonably high... BUT it adds RNG variability to the build overall. Your low-end is lower and your top-end is higher, so even though the average is about the same, bad luck is going to be more painful than leaving it as-is.
If you click through into specific charts, you might find that these casts crowd out other casts or delay use of abilities that are sitting on cooldown (i.e., opportunity cost).
@Hekili I think I see the issue... You are using the standard raid build which includes Stormbringer and Elemental Blast, I'm using the current top-performing M+ build (BcQAfcj78nJtvjmejSqe5Zhm9IJJpEJISSISCUSkAAAAAAAAAAAAAQJCBSUSRAJtkkUAUSkEA) I'm not sure how to get the simulationcraft analysis from the raidbots advanced sim, but here is the screenshot of the difference when comparing the two
If I missed something while attempting to do this... My apologies. I basically took the CLISFrS and the Hekili profiles and swapped the talent loadout
You can dig into the "Full HTML Report" in the Simulation Details on the right for more information. What you're showing there is a 1.9% increase in 5 target sustained.
So here are the calculated results ranging from 1-5 and then an 8 target scenario (To simulate a mythic plus big pull). Green boxes show favorability to the new proposed priority, red means the standard Hekili priority is favorable. Negative % are favorable to the new priority suggestion
I would think this paints a favorable picture for my proposed changes, but I'm not sure if a 2-3% is worth the squeeze for you. And also, the priority changes I listed out were very rough. I'm sure there is a possibility that an ashen catalyst hot handed lava lash may fit in between Ice Strike and Frost shock.
So I guess my question is, now that we've explored this, is this worth the change?
More assessment is needed, though you could certainly consider checking the FAQ for guidance on making this a custom priority for the time being.
The priority needs to be optimal for all popular builds, so additional conditions to sort out the difference between raid and M+ is needed before I can incorporate changes.
I'll ask Rusah to take a look as well.
I will check the FAQ and learn how to customize it. Thank you so much for your time today!
Before You Begin
WoW Version
Retail (Dragonflight)
Describe the Issue
In AOE situations, when you have 10 maelstrom, abilities like lava lash, StormStrike, and even sometimes crash lightning are being prioritized over dumping the maelstrom and then frost shocking. I don't have a WoW guide to point to and say "look it says it right here, this is the rotation ", but It's hard for me to imagine that a crash lightninged Lavalash or StormStrike would take priority over the AOE Frost shock that comes from using 5+ maelstrom.
Let me know if there is anything else I can provide!
How to Reproduce
Talent Loadout
BcQAfcj78nJtvjmejSqe5Zhm9IRSKRCikEikIUSkAAAAAAAAAAAAAQLCBS0SRUgUSSSBQJRSA
Snapshot
https://pastebin.com/vrr0bRj4
Raidbots Sim Report (Link)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mtKKhg6nMZHwe7A6cogNnr
Additional Information
No response
Contact Information
sxe#1620