General project discussion

[Heliomance]

GitHub doesn't seem to have an easy way to have general discussion about the project, so I figured opening an issue made a reasonable workaround. Here - general discussion thread for all.

[TwistedFaith84]

Has every1 stopped checking/updating Heroforge for now? I've been noticing that no1 posted anything on or about Heroforge for atleast a good Month?

[Heliomance]

Yeah, I was wondering about that. It might be because I've slowed down a lot on releases, but I've added a dev branch with what I'm working on at the moment, and that didn't garner any attention at all.

[timoc]

FWIW, I work on this usually after my game, and its been on pause for a month. I will get back into it in the next week or so.

[TwistedFaith84]

So how is everyone doing? I know there hasn't been a lot of activity on here for a while so just thought I ask that and also see how things are coming along with the next update? Also do you have @Heliomance do you know about how long for the next update to be ready? Not trying to rush or anything just curious.

[torrasque666]

I would be more than willing to post a version with a new book or two. I'd just need to know which one people would prefer. I could do something as simple as adding a new book, like Drow of the Underdark. Or I could also see about doing something more complex, like implementing the Weapons of Legacy system. I'd just need to know what people would prefer.

[johnjstanton]

My group has been playing 5e for a while now. Does anyone have a favorite (excel) sheet for that?

Thanks, John

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 5:22 PM, TwistedFaith84 notifications@github.com wrote:

So how is everyone doing? I know there hasn't been a lot of activity on here for a while so just thought I ask that and also see how things are coming along with the next update? Also do you have @Heliomance https://github.com/Heliomance do you know about how long for the next update to be ready? Not trying to rush or anything just curious.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Heliomance/HeroForge-Anew/issues/53#issuecomment-150393546 .

[TwistedFaith84]

@torrasque666 Drow Of The Underdark would be a nice addition. Weapons Of Legacy would be ok for later as it's mostly weapons and most of the feats in it go with said weapons and only 3 or 4 general feats IIRC.

@johnjstanton A nice excel character sheet for 5th that I use is ForgedAnvil's 5th Character Creater at you can get from ENWorld that he updates all the time. The link it is http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdownloads.php?do=download&downloadid=1234

[Heliomance]

Drow of the Underdark is probably the next book I'll implement. As for the next release, I'm afraid I can't give an estimate for that. I'm quite busy at work at the moment (I was previously working on HF on slow days in the office), and the next release is v8.0. It's a complete overhaul of the sheet structure, and there's a lot of stuff to do. It's going to be a while, sorry.

[TwistedFaith84]

That sounds great for Drow of the Underdark. It would be a great addition. As for the next release that's completely understandable. Personal and Professional life should always come first (in the order) and with what you doing with HF that's a lot of work. Friday, 23 October 2015, 03:00AM -05:00 from Heliomance < notifications@github.com> :

Drow of the Underdark is probably the next book I'll implement. As for the next release, I'm afraid I can't give an estimate for that. I'm quite busy at work at the moment (I was previously working on HF on slow days in the office), and the next release is v8.0. It's a complete overhaul of the sheet structure, and there's a lot of stuff to do. It's going to be a while, sorry. — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub .

[TwistedFaith84]

@torrasque666 out of curiosity if you uploaded your new version with those 1 or 2 books does that version include the easy fix I found for the feats that requires specific deities.

Sent from myMail app for Android Thursday, 22 October 2015, 07:34PM -05:00 from torrasque666 < notifications@github.com> :

I would be more than willing to post a version with a new book or two. I'd just need to know which one people would prefer. I could do something as simple as adding a new book, like Drow of the Underdark. Or I could also see about doing something more complex, like implementing the Weapons of Legacy system. I'd just need to know what people would prefer. — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub .

[TwistedFaith84]

@Heliomance please correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC didn't you say that you have a better handle on javascript then VBA? Or was that someone else in here. I do have a reason for asking but I'll get to that later. Friday, 23 October 2015, 03:00AM -05:00 from Heliomance < notifications@github.com> :

Drow of the Underdark is probably the next book I'll implement. As for the next release, I'm afraid I can't give an estimate for that. I'm quite busy at work at the moment (I was previously working on HF on slow days in the office), and the next release is v8.0. It's a complete overhaul of the sheet structure, and there's a lot of stuff to do. It's going to be a while, sorry. — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub .

[Heliomance]

No, I don't know javascript at all. Python and C# are my languages of choice. I've picked up basic competence in VBA from poking at HF though.

[TwistedFaith84]

Ahh ok. well what I was think was if someone knows java and was willing to recode it might be better to turn HF into a google spreadsheet (if it would work. I recently read something about GoogleAppScript or something like that). I know that that would be a ton of data to transfer over but it would be a great place to store it and if i'm thinking correctly it would make contribute to the data adding alot simpler and everything would be in one place. Just an idea though.

[torrasque666]

i'd prefer not to work on DotU until I know the new sheet structure. Don't want to waste all my hard work. JK. But seriously, I'd rather know the new structure before working on adding a new source. Hell, I'll even work on the new format. Overseen by @Heliomance of course.

[TwistedFaith84]

I have a question and I only ask cause the person that asked about the weapon data kinda made me think. Is it possible on the Attack Sheet when selecting a weapon you can type what weapon you want (that is listed) and have it pull the info that way? I know there is a way to do it as it is done on a few other sheets. It would make selecting attacks faster (ie if you want a longsword you can start typing longsword and as you type the list narrows down to longsword).

[torrasque666]

@TwistedFaith84 sounds like..... I wanna say Combo Box maybe?

[Heliomance]

It's possible, it means changing the drop-downs to work off cell data validation instead of form controls. I can look into it, but it does change how the data is stored (form control drop-down stores it as a number, the position of the selected item in the list, whereas using data validation stores the actual string) which means a fair few other formulas would have to be changed.

The other thing I could potentially do to speed up looking for weapons is add a checkbox to restrict the list to weapons you're proficient with.

[TwistedFaith84]

@Heliomance Na that is OK. It's fine the way it is for me I just wasn't sure how much would actually have to be changed to do something like that.

@torrasque666 I'm not really sure. It might be.

[Heliomance]

Ye gods but familiar skills are a mess. I'm trying to sort them out at the moment and I have no idea what's going on!

...damn. I'm going to need to store default ranks for creatures, I was hoping to drop them. Right, time to come up with a new format for holding skills!

[robertkety]

Extra skill column that was not completed properly. Creature Info tab, Column AM, Iaikutsu Focus. Eliminate that column and all will be well.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Heliomance notifications@github.com wrote:

Ye gods but familiar skills are a mess. I'm trying to sort them out at the moment and I have no idea what's going on!

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Heliomance/HeroForge-Anew/issues/53#issuecomment-154109876 .

[Heliomance]

No it won't. I'm amalgamating the RaceInfo and CreatureInfo tables, which store skills differently to each other. I need to come up with a format that works for both of them. I'm also intending on pulling MonsterForge in to work off the same data sheet as well, so at some point I'll need to inspect that to see what info it expects.

I was going to just use the RaceInfo format for all skills, as it only takes up one cell and has a helper function already written for it. Also changing that to the CreatureInfo format would require restructuring large parts of the Skills tab which is probably the most impenetrable part of the whole sheet. Trouble is, that doesn't store default skill ranks, which things like familiars and animal companions - not to mention MonsterForge - will need.

[TwistedFaith84]

Well due to a messed up install/upgrade my Microsoft Office is no longer working. I tried just about everything (I haven't reformatted my drive yet) and it refuses to work. So after I get my drive backed up (it'll take me some time to see want I need to/want to keep) I'm stuck with no MS Office. So with that said any suggestions on which Office I should install after the format? My computer specs are AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4400+ 2.30 GHz 2 GB DDR2 Ram (only have 2 slots and cant really upgrade with out upgrading the CPU) No Videocard

I know its a sad computer but I can only work with what I have and with no cash coming in I cant buy better.

[Heliomance]

v8.0 is transitioning to .xlsm format, so you'll need Office 2007 or above.

[TwistedFaith84]

Ok cause I was think of going back to Office 2010 as that still gave me the smoothest experience. Everything above 2010 to me just felt like it had alot of LAG. Granted I'm sure if I had a better computer in general it would have had (or felt like) less LAG.

[TwistedFaith84]

So Github Has a slightly new style. Has anyone else switched over? And if so how do you like it?

[Heliomance]

Hah! Yes! Got familiar skills working! Now to copy the fix over to the Animal Companion sheet, then there's just a whole load of data entry to do to update the CreatureInfo sheet to the new format >_>

[Heliomance]

twitch

Get animal companions almost finished Excel crashes Realise I haven't saved around two hours FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU

[TwistedFaith84]

Out Of Curiosity can the next update (8.1 or 8.0.1 how ever its going to work) be that instead of adding new books; can it be the completion of the book that need to be completed (ie I know that their are feats that still need to be added as well as Prestige Classes, Classes (mostly Alt. Classes), Magic Items, Spells(mostly Buffs/Debuffs added to the Buffs Sheet), and finally Equipment(Mostly Weapon and Armor Options (like materials, enhancements, and especially stuff like Dragonscale Husk))

[Heliomance]

Equipment needs a complete overhaul, the way it works at the moment just isn't good enough. The trouble with that is that I have no idea what to do with it. Once I'm done with 8.0 I may open a discussion thread about it.

[TwistedFaith84]

That's understandable. The equipment DOES NEED a MAJOR overhaul. I know I suggested maybe something similar to YAPCG. But yea we can discuss that after 8.0 is finished and released. As for the the rest of the missing stuff it would be nice to have after 8.0 is done while thinking about how to Redo The Equipment.

[ThAlEdison]

So open questions then, Should you be able to put more than one/each slot of equipment on the character sheet. If so, how should the choice be implemented? Drop down? How should magical bonuses be handled? Should equipment abilities be listed with class /racial /feat abilities? If so, should it only list the abilities for worn equipment? How should extra dimensional storage space be handled for weight? Should there be a check for selecting melds vs equipment? Should the epic extra slot feat be handled? On Dec 4, 2015 8:53 AM, "TwistedFaith84" notifications@github.com wrote:

That's understandable. The equipment DOES NEED a MAJOR overhaul. I know I suggested maybe something similar to YAPCG. But yea we can discuss that after 8.0 is finished and released. As for the the rest of the missing stuff it would be nice to have after 8.0 is done while thinking about how to Redo The Equipment.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Heliomance/HeroForge-Anew/issues/53#issuecomment-161985474 .

[TwistedFaith84]

Ok going in order of questions asked 1) Yes but there should be a checkbox or something for weapons and armor as to which one your currently using/equipped cause just because you have a +5 Ghost Touch Longsword of Defending in your stash doesn't mean your currently using it so you cant have the up +5 added to your AC. Same goes to Armor. 2) Yea drop down would work but I'm thinking more something like just typing the enhancements in would be a good way to do it as well and if you have more then 1 Enhancement you just separate them with a colon (;) or something that way if someone want to keep spending the gold to have 5+ enh. they could. 3) It could but maybe better having its own separate sheet although having the calc.work properly could be a bit of a challenge figuring out what you have equipped and using vs what you have in your stash. 4) Extra-Dimensional space handling is relatively easy for weight. There could be a sheet strictly for stuff like that where on that sheet you have like 5 or so different sections for your Extra-Dimensional Storage with a drop down for choosing what storage is being used for that section and also being able to use like 2 of the same item (ie 2 Bags of Holding Type IV) and still have it calculate them as different storage. 5) IDK as I've never dealt with using melds yet so someone who has and know the rules better for that can give their opinion. 6) Yes as well as items that are slotless (Ioun Stones) and if I recall there are items (not just feats) and/or abilities that give you an extra slot

[Heliomance]

Just released to dev, animal companions and familiars should now be working! Currently only Baboons, Badgers, Bats and Bears (Black, Brown and Polar) have the new skill format done for them, so those are the only critters that skills will work properly for. If anyone wants to do some data entry for me, the format for skills (in the CreatureInfo sheet in the data folder) is as follows:

<skillname>:<ranks>+<racialbonus>

Only skills listed in the statblock should be entered, any skill mentioned in the column will be treated as a class skill for that creature. If it has no ranks and no racial bonus, the colon and everything after are unnecessary. If it has no racial bonus, the + is unnecessary. If it has a racial bonus but no ranks, you do still need to enter zero for the ranks like so:

Climb:0+8

Skills should be separated by a comma, no spaces. Racial bonus should not include size modifiers, ability modifiers, or anything of the sort.

[ThAlEdison]

I've been doing some data entry. 1.The Oriental Adventure animals (with the exception of the toads) don't actually exist; they're a partial entry for the Hengeyokai race because they lack mental stats, skills, hit dice, and feat selection.

2. How are we handling the non-bonus feats for animal companions/familiars?
3. Almost every animal has a +2/+2 skill feat (Alertness, Agile, Stealthy) this affects the entries.
4. It seems like animals from the Player's Guide to Arcanis d20 forgot to use the 4x multiplier for skill points at first level (or they universally have 3 unspent skill points).

~Erick A. Cobb

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Heliomance notifications@github.com wrote:

Just released to dev, animal companions and familiars should now be working! Currently only Baboons, Badgers, Bats and Bears (Black, Brown and Polar) have the new skill format done for them, so those are the only critters that skills will work properly for. If anyone wants to do some data entry for me, the format for skills (in the CreatureInfo sheet in the data folder) is as follows:

:+ Only skills listed in the statblock should be entered, any skill mentioned in the column will be treated as a class skill for that creature. If it has no ranks and no racial bonus, the colon and everything after are unnecessary. If it has no racial bonus, the + is unnecessary. If it has a racial bonus but no ranks, you do still need to enter zero for the ranks like so: Climb:0+8 Skills should be separated by a comma, no spaces. Racial bonus should _not_ include size modifiers, ability modifiers, or anything of the sort. — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Heliomance/HeroForge-Anew/issues/53#issuecomment-162893471 .

[ThAlEdison]

What's the best way to get the file to you. I've put in some of the missing data from Ankheg through Clockwork Mender. I've put in skills all the way to Dire Lion. Still unsure about what to do for the feats, I could throw them into the bonus feats, but most aren't actually "bonus". If the data is ever used for monster building, having those feats in the bonus feats area won't make sense.

~Erick A. Cobb

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Erick Cobb thaledison@gmail.com wrote:

I've been doing some data entry. 1.The Oriental Adventure animals (with the exception of the toads) don't actually exist; they're a partial entry for the Hengeyokai race because they lack mental stats, skills, hit dice, and feat selection.

2. How are we handling the non-bonus feats for animal companions/familiars?
3. Almost every animal has a +2/+2 skill feat (Alertness, Agile, Stealthy) this affects the entries.
4. It seems like animals from the Player's Guide to Arcanis d20 forgot to use the 4x multiplier for skill points at first level (or they universally have 3 unspent skill points).

~Erick A. Cobb

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Heliomance notifications@github.com wrote:

Just released to dev, animal companions and familiars should now be working! Currently only Baboons, Badgers, Bats and Bears (Black, Brown and Polar) have the new skill format done for them, so those are the only critters that skills will work properly for. If anyone wants to do some data entry for me, the format for skills (in the CreatureInfo sheet in the data folder) is as follows:

:+ Only skills listed in the statblock should be entered, any skill mentioned in the column will be treated as a class skill for that creature. If it has no ranks and no racial bonus, the colon and everything after are unnecessary. If it has no racial bonus, the + is unnecessary. If it has a racial bonus but no ranks, you do still need to enter zero for the ranks like so: Climb:0+8 Skills should be separated by a comma, no spaces. Racial bonus should _not_ include size modifiers, ability modifiers, or anything of the sort. — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Heliomance/HeroForge-Anew/issues/53#issuecomment-162893471 .

[Heliomance]

Hrm, true. I am planning on using the same data sheet to resurrect MonsterForge at some point. I'll think about that later.

Best way to get the sheet to me is with a pull request, which is half the reason I started spring out the data tables into separate files. Makes collaboration a hell of a lot easier.

[TwistedFaith84]

Is there a way to have the Aging Effects be Calculated? I have a idea on how it could be done if it wasn't in the works already. My idea is Add 3 Columns to the Race Info right after the Age Columns for the Min Age for each Age Bracket. Then just figure out a formula for the Calculations on whichever sheet that they need to be on. Finally have a Checkbox (with formula attached) on the Stats Sheet (next to the Age) for the exclusion of the Neg to the Physical Stats with a box next to it for how much of the neg to take off. Or something like that.

[Heliomance]

It would be doable, yeah. Low priority though, and age information isn't available for every race - or even most races - anyway.

[ThAlEdison]

Another issue is Abilty scores. I think you're already working on this, but the Familiars/Companions are using the full stats while other races only have the racial modifiers. I've got maybe a temp workaround using the Adj columns, but I'm not sure that's the best way to do things.

~Erick A. Cobb

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 1:16 AM, Heliomance notifications@github.com wrote:

Hrm, true. I am planning on using the same data sheet to resurrect MonsterForge at some point. I'll think about that later.

Best way to get the sheet to me is with a pull request, which is half the reason I started spring out the data tables into separate files. Makes collaboration a hell of a lot easier.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Heliomance/HeroForge-Anew/issues/53#issuecomment-163137355 .

[Heliomance]

When I'm done, everything's going to run off full starts, thanks for reminding me. There's also going to need to be an override column for races where the stat adjustments given in the "as characters" section don't match the base stats (see aasimar for an example IIRC), which is annoying.

[ThAlEdison]

Aasimar use the non-standard array 13,12,11,10,9,8 instead of 11,11,11,10,10,10. But there's no way to directly determine this in most cases. The other thing I was thinking about today is dragon age categories. It's easy for familiars (a dragon older than wyrmling is ineligible to be a familiar). But for special mounts and monsters it becomes another table with about 80% of the columns of the main table. While there are some patterns, there's also some odd breaks in the pattern.

~Erick A. Cobb

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 12:15 PM, Heliomance notifications@github.com wrote:

When I'm done, everything's going to run off full starts, thanks for reminding me. There's also going to need to be an override column for races where the stat adjustments given in the "as characters" section don't match the base stats (see aasimar for an example IIRC), which is annoying.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Heliomance/HeroForge-Anew/issues/53#issuecomment-163707071 .

[TwistedFaith84]

Hey just thought of something wouldn't it be better to get rid of the Bonus Feats Class selector altogether and just have the bonus feats show up in blue color when you select 1 or more classes that grant bonus feats? I mean it would be alot easier instead of selecting 1 class then switching to another in the selection just to select you bonus feats for all classes. The only prob that I can see though is when selection multiple classes that grant the same bonus feats or grant bonus feats to feats you get for free but as far as the free feats go if the free feats override the bonus feats automatically with the teal color (i guess it's teal) instead of the blue then you know that those certain feats are already free so you dont need to select them as a bonus.

[torrasque666]

Hmm... Now I'm wondering how much processor power it would take to pull changes from another sheet, since its moving to a "each data sheet is on its own now" format. Also wondering if a closed excel sheet can still get updated results. Like I have a "Feats" sheet that pulls from a separate "Feats Data" which would need to be updated with any and all changes like the current feats sheet does.

[TwistedFaith84]

@torrasque666 thats an interesting question. Guess the only way to find out is trial and error with low end PC's and also different versions of excel (ie everything before 2013 doesn't hog the RAM and/or CPU as much as everything 2013 and after).

[torrasque666]

Just tried. Can't maintain references to a closed sheet. As such, experiment is a failure. Must try to implement YAPCG-esque feat selection in other means.

[Heliomance]

If you guys have any ideas on what to do with the Feats tab, could you head over to issue #68?

[TwistedFaith84]

@torrasque666 what if you had those closed Feats Sheets Merged into 1 Workbook thats is specifically for the feats? or will HeroForge not work with closed Sheets/Workbooks? @Heliomance I know having the MaxHP work again just requires the re-linking of the checkbox to the proper cell but is it possible to have it work for Animal Companions and Familiars as well?

[TwistedFaith84]

Hey I know its still a little early but I wanted to say Happy Holidays To Everyone. I wish you all a Joyous, Peaceful, Exciting, Loving, and Wonderful Holiday. May The New Year bring you all Peace, Love, and Happiness.

[TwistedFaith84]

So How is everyone doing???

[ThAlEdison]

I've been busy, I should take time tomorrow to submit the work I've done. On Jan 16, 2016 11:19 AM, "TwistedFaith84" notifications@github.com wrote:

So How is everyone doing???

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Heliomance/HeroForge-Anew/issues/53#issuecomment-172231863 .