e-Daggers are insanely huge

[ArcLumin]

Edaggers, while on, have a weight class of 3, which is fucking massive. That's circular saw size. By comparison, combat knives are only weight class 1. Because of their huge weightclass, they deal significantly larger embed damage numbers than is first apparent. Combine that with their 100% embed chance aaaannnddd....

[KayeArray]

Yeah they're pretty good

[ArcLumin]

Let's take a look at the damage numbers for edaggers; 35 base throwforce 100% embed Weight class is 3, so 4x3 = 12 damage upon embed 15% chance per tick to cause 2x3 = 6 damage while embeded Causes a large chunk of bloodloss, causing oxyloss takes 30x3 = 90 ticks to actually remove the dagger from you deals 8x3 = 24 damage when removed

On average, the edagger will pain 14 times while embeded, due to the amount of time required to remove it. So 6x14 = 84 damage while you're just trying to remove it, due to the amount of time required to remove it yourself.

So, 35 damage on throw, 12 on embed, 84 damage on average while in you, and 24 damage when actually removed.

That's 155 damage, not even counting the amount of bloodloss. And that's for ONE edagger.

[ArcLumin]

Compare that to the damage it'd deal at weight 1: 35 base throwforce 4 damage on embed 15% chance per tick to deal 2 damage 30 ticks to remove it from you Deals 8 damage when removed.

Average of about 10 damage dealt while trying to remove it, and 8 damage when removed.

So 62 damage total, not counting bloodloss.

[blobbernaut]

Throwforce doesn't happen for embeds, only the embed damage itself IIRC

[blobbernaut]

And 90 tics? No, I think you mean 9 tics. It does NOT take 90ish seconds to remove or anywhere close.

[blobbernaut]

throwforce is used for when you throw it at mobs or windows or something for example.

[ArcLumin]

It's supposed to deal only the embed damage when a throw hits, but it doesn't work like that in our code. Both work. Just try it, throwing two edaggers at someone will crit em. Our code uses both at once.

As for 90 ticks, that's what it says directly in the defines.

define EMBEDDED_UNSAFE_REMOVAL_TIME 30 //A Time in ticks, total removal time = (this*item.w_class)

[blobbernaut]

Those are byond time tics. Not game tics (e.g. master controller tics).

For example, check the handcuff code: breakouttime = 600 //Deciseconds = 60s = 1 minute

It takes 9 seconds to remove, for an average of 0.75 pain procs, assuming ~ 5 life procs.

[ArcLumin]

Ah, misunderstood. So, 2 pain chances, approximately, considering the time to react, so 35+12+12+24=83 Still a lot for a 2 tc weapon

[blobbernaut]

Also keep in mind the throw force itself is reduced by melee armor.

As with the rod gun, if you are hit the correct strategy is to not remove them until you have bruise packs with you.

So this does 47 damage on impact, reduced by melee armor. It does ~ 1 proc per 14ish seconds, plus the blood loss.

If you're expecting to do that 84 damage, you're expecting them to run off with your dagger.

This is a good tool for crippling somebody, but you can miss it, you can't hide an activated one in your backpack, and you can see the sprite quite easily. It's pretty good I think, but it's not quite as good as you initially thought.

[blobbernaut]

Not just that, but according to your info, the combat knife does: 50 damage on embed, with 25% pain chance instead of 15, does the same damage per pain tick. It only has a 70% chance to embed, though. But you can hide it quite easily in your backpack.

They seem to be comparable throwing weapons.

[ArcLumin]

Two edaggers can be thrown real fast for a quick crit.

And you can have them on and in your pack. Weight 3 is the largest that can fit in a normal pack.

[GuyonBroadway]

If you use a metal bat an E-Dagger will do 53 damage per hit, so for four TC you CAN crit an unarmoured target.

However it also requires getting a metal bat, and E-daggers have a somewhat visible inhand sprite, not as much as an esword but much more so than a combat knife or shurikens. I think it's fine as is.