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A textbook on informal homotopy type theory
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Make the book available in printed form #103

Closed andrejbauer closed 11 years ago

andrejbauer commented 11 years ago

We should explore possibilities. I have a friend who has a startup which helps people to sell their books online. I will ask him for advice. Let us use this issue for collecting information.

According to lulu.com the book would cost around $17 in paperback and $25 in hardcover.

awodey commented 11 years ago

I don't like the ideaof selling it ourselves. we can make it available for free, and people can bind it themselves if they want a bound copy.

On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:24 PM, Andrej Bauer notifications@github.com wrote:

We should explore possibilities. I have a friend who has a startup which helps people to sell their books online. I will ask him for advice.

According to lulu.com the book would cost around $17 in paperback and $25 in hardcover.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

andrejbauer commented 11 years ago

I think the idea was to give people the option to get a nicely bound book. We would set the price so that we don't actually get any money at all. And of course, the PDF will still be available for free on our web site.

andrejbauer commented 11 years ago

"Bind it themselves" is most easily done by using a service like lulu.com. So, if we provide everything that is needed by lulu.com, people will be able to do it easily. But at that point we might as well just put it on lulu.com. And once we do that, it also appears on amazon.com, if we wish.

awodey commented 11 years ago

If we want to make it available for purchase in bound form, I'm sure we can find a real publisher like CUP who will be happy to publish it and take over the distribution, library of congress, sale to university libraries, etc. -- and they will still let us keep distributing it online (see Tom Leinster's book). I don't see the point in making arrangements with a self-publisher for something we've decided not to publish -- there is no principle at issue here. people can do the self-publishing thing for themselves if they want.

On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:36 PM, Andrej Bauer notifications@github.com wrote:

"Bind it themselves" is most easily done by using a service like lulu.com. So, if we provide everything that is needed by lulu.com, people will be able to do it easily. But at that point we might as well just put it on lulu.com. And once we do that, it also appears on amazon.com, if we wish.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

andrejbauer commented 11 years ago

Of course they can, the license allows them to do so. By the way, why are we making a cover then?

txa commented 11 years ago

I think many people would like to be able to obtain a bound copy easily. I don't see why we shouldn't make this available.

T.

From: Steve Awodey notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com> Reply-To: HoTT/book reply@reply.github.com<mailto:reply@reply.github.com> To: HoTT/book book@noreply.github.com<mailto:book@noreply.github.com> Subject: Re: [book] Make the book available in printed form (#103)

If we want to make it available for purchase in bound form, I'm sure we can find a real publisher like CUP who will be happy to publish it and take over the distribution, library of congress, sale to university libraries, etc. -- and they will still let us keep distributing it online (see Tom Leinster's book). I don't see the point in making arrangements with a self-publisher for something we've decided not to publish -- there is no principle at issue here. people can do the self-publishing thing for themselves if they want.

On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:36 PM, Andrej Bauer notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

"Bind it themselves" is most easily done by using a service like lulu.com. So, if we provide everything that is needed by lulu.com, people will be able to do it easily. But at that point we might as well just put it on lulu.com. And once we do that, it also appears on amazon.com, if we wish.

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— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/HoTT/book/issues/103#issuecomment-16200678.

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RobertHarper commented 11 years ago

i don't see why we don't publish on cup, maintaining an online edition, and use any proceeds (ha!) to fund future meetings or similar such things that benefit the field.

bob

On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Andrej Bauer wrote:

Of course they can, the license allows them to do so. By the way, why are we making a cover then?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

mikeshulman commented 11 years ago

One worry is that the First Edition of the book may not be maximally polished, so we might want to wait for a later edition before giving it to a 'real' publisher, whereas people may still want printed copies of the first edition. On Apr 10, 2013 4:53 PM, "Robert Harper" notifications@github.com wrote:

i don't see why we don't publish on cup, maintaining an online edition, and use any proceeds (ha!) to fund future meetings or similar such things that benefit the field.

bob

On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Andrej Bauer wrote:

Of course they can, the license allows them to do so. By the way, why are we making a cover then?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/HoTT/book/issues/103#issuecomment-16201392 .

guillaumebrunerie commented 11 years ago

According to lulu.com the book would cost around $17 in paperback and $25 in hardcover.

That’s really cheap, why are other math books so expensive?

cangiuli commented 11 years ago

After discussing this with Steve at dinner tonight, we had a few questions:

andrejbauer commented 11 years ago

I think especially without an ISBN we do not preclude real publishing, but it might be the case everyone will already have the book. But I can see everyone in our group is itching to have a nice copy ...

guillaumebrunerie commented 11 years ago

I don’t know if it’s relevant but at the following Lulu FAQ (http://connect.lulu.com/t5/Publishing-Process/How-do-I-set-a-Copyright-License-for-my-work/ta-p/33480) it is stated that:

You, as the creator, are both the copyright holder and publisher of all works created and distributed using the tools and services available on the Lulu.com website. Therefore, when creating your work's copyright page, you should list yourself as the copyright holder and publisher. If you wish, you may list Lulu as the distributor.

andrejbauer commented 11 years ago

I think we definitely shouldn't give the book an ISBN. And it shouldn't be available on amazon.com. So at most we would make it easy to get the book in a bound form, i.e., we're not really "publishing".

As Guillaume points out, lulu.com is essentially a fancy copying machine.

vladimirias commented 11 years ago

Just for your info. If you want a "real" publisher, I have a standing request from International Press to suggest them good ideas for new books. They have done reasonably well in the past both in terms of prices and in terms of distribution (advertisement etc.)

See http://intlpress.com/site/_home/

Vladimir.

On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:24 PM, Andrej Bauer wrote:

We should explore possibilities. I have a friend who has a startup which helps people to sell their books online. I will ask him for advice.

According to lulu.com the book would cost around $17 in paperback and $25 in hardcover.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

andrejbauer commented 11 years ago

Thanks Vladimir. I think at this point we're looking at most for "print & bind" service, not a real publisher, but we will keep your offer in mind!

awodey commented 11 years ago

I agree.

On Apr 11, 2013, at 2:13 AM, Andrej Bauer notifications@github.com wrote:

I think we definitely shouldn't give the book an ISBN. And it shouldn't be available on amazon.com. So at most we would make it easy to get the book in a bound form, i.e., we're not really "publishing".

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

mikeshulman commented 11 years ago

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Andrej Bauer notifications@github.comwrote:

I think we definitely shouldn't give the book an ISBN. And it shouldn't be available on amazon.com. So at most we would make it easy to get the book in a bound form, i.e., we're not really "publishing".

agreed.

spitters commented 11 years ago

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Guillaume Brunerie < notifications@github.com> wrote:

According to lulu.com the book would cost around $17 in paperback and $25 in hardcover.

That’s really cheap, why are other math books so expensive?

Capitalism? Sadly in a way that does not seem to benefit science. See the discussion at: http://thecostofknowledge.com/

spitters commented 11 years ago

Agreed.

One more thing: we will put it in the arxiv, so it will show up in google scholar, but not in mathscinet. I think this is what we are currently going for, but I'd like to make it explicit.

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Mike Shulman notifications@github.comwrote:

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Andrej Bauer <notifications@github.com

wrote:

I think we definitely shouldn't give the book an ISBN. And it shouldn't be available on amazon.com. So at most we would make it easy to get the book in a bound form, i.e., we're not really "publishing".

agreed.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/HoTT/book/issues/103#issuecomment-16233544 .

awodey commented 11 years ago

there's a bit more to it: quality control by specialist editors and referees, professional copyediting and typesetting, higher quality printing and binding, marketing and distribution, and some authors even expect to be paid!

On Apr 11, 2013, at 9:21 AM, spitters notifications@github.com wrote:

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Guillaume Brunerie < notifications@github.com> wrote:

According to lulu.com the book would cost around $17 in paperback and $25 in hardcover.

That’s really cheap, why are other math books so expensive?

Capitalism? Sadly in a way that does not seem to benefit science. See the discussion at: http://thecostofknowledge.com/ — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

awodey commented 11 years ago

yes

On Apr 11, 2013, at 9:24 AM, spitters notifications@github.com wrote:

Agreed.

One more thing: we will put it in the arxiv, so it will show up in google scholar, but not in mathscinet. I think this is what we are currently going for, but I'd like to make it explicit.

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Mike Shulman notifications@github.comwrote:

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Andrej Bauer <notifications@github.com

wrote:

I think we definitely shouldn't give the book an ISBN. And it shouldn't be available on amazon.com. So at most we would make it easy to get the book in a bound form, i.e., we're not really "publishing".

agreed.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/HoTT/book/issues/103#issuecomment-16233544 .

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

spitters commented 11 years ago

Sorry, you are right, I should have said more. What I said applies more to journals than to books, although it does seem to apply to some books.

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Steve Awodey notifications@github.comwrote:

there's a bit more to it: quality control by specialist editors and referees, professional copyediting and typesetting, higher quality printing and binding, marketing and distribution, and some authors even expect to be paid!

On Apr 11, 2013, at 9:21 AM, spitters notifications@github.com wrote:

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Guillaume Brunerie < notifications@github.com> wrote:

According to lulu.com the book would cost around $17 in paperback and $25 in hardcover.

That?s really cheap, why are other math books so expensive?

Capitalism? Sadly in a way that does not seem to benefit science. See the discussion at: http://thecostofknowledge.com/ ? Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

? Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/HoTT/book/issues/103#issuecomment-16234089 .

mikeshulman commented 11 years ago

Is this decided? We're going to put it on the arXiv and make a bound version available at cost through Lulu (or similar), but without an ISBN and not through anywhere like amazon? If so, then we can close this issue.

awodey commented 11 years ago

Agreed.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 26, 2013, at 9:48 PM, Mike Shulman notifications@github.com wrote:

Is this decided? We're going to put it on the arXiv and make a bound version available at cost through Lulu (or similar), but without an ISBN and not through anywhere like amazon? If so, then we can close this issue.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

martinescardo commented 11 years ago

I did a lulu press version of LICS proceedings in 2010.

We did get an ISBN for that. So we can get it for the HoTT book too. I am not sure whether the discussion is whether we want it or whether we can, as I've been just added to the list.

Martin

On 26/04/13 21:13, Steve Awodey wrote:

Agreed.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 26, 2013, at 9:48 PM, Mike Shulman notifications@github.com wrote:

Is this decided? We're going to put it on the arXiv and make a bound version available at cost through Lulu (or similar), but without an ISBN and not through anywhere like amazon? If so, then we can close this issue.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/HoTT/book/issues/103#issuecomment-17097522.

Martin Escardo http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~mhe

andrejbauer commented 11 years ago

We decided not to have an ISBN because we do not want to "publish" the book, just make it available.