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HumanDynamics / openbadge

MIT License
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Host project on community website for easier ordering #109

Open patcon opened 5 years ago

patcon commented 5 years ago

Hi again @OrenLederman!

A few of us have been talking and meeting to work on this. (We keep notes fwiw)

We came across some websites that we were hoping to use so that it's simpler for the next group to walk this path. They allow for project sharing, and essentially one-click ordering for others who want to do the same fabrication.

tl;dr - Would you be opposed to our setting up a presences for openbadge on a community platform like these ones?

Here are some comments -- 🔍 facts, ❤️ feelings, and 💡 ideas -- related to this discussion:

community platforms: Meaning community side of PCBWay, seeed studios, etc.

General

  1. :mag: The openbadge license is MIT, and so we're technically free to do anything.
  2. :heart: I feel preference to work in a way that aligns with your expectations and goals.
  3. :heart: I feel eager to make it simpler for others to start projects with openbadge.
  4. :heart: I feel eager to actively contribute to having a presence on community platforms, so that I can help foster a larger peer community of collaborators.
  5. :heart: I feel open to letting your team manage this, if you have strong feelings on it.
  6. :mag: The community platforms don't seem to offer accounts for team management.
  7. :bulb: We could share an single account.
  8. :mag: seeed studio has some options for teams/contributors that we could use accordingly.

Profit-sharing and incentivization on platforms

  1. :mag: The platforms seem to offer financial incentives (paid or discount).
  2. :heart: I feel uninterested in being personally enriched by hosting a project on these platforms.
  3. :heart: I feel that the incentive could be used to promote something community-minded.
  4. :bulb: We could enabled "monetization", but use it to give community projects discounts/credits.
  5. :bulb: Alternatively, we could try to disable any monetization on the account.
  6. :heart: I feel that monetization should be disabled if it in any way increases the price of regular orders.
  7. :mag: I've tweeted at PCBWay to discover options for commission.
  8. :mag: The community platforms have referral programs, eg PCBWay's.
    1. :bulb: We could use the above-mentioned shared account to receive referral bonuses from doc/readme links, and hold it for community uses.

Anyhow, I look forward to hearing your thoughts! Hopefully this is a helpful format for this discussion :)

cc: @kevinphys (pls feel free to add your own thoughts! 😄 )

Summary

Took some comments from rest of issue for summary:

Summarized up to https://github.com/HumanDynamics/openbadge/issues/109#issuecomment-433208939

jmueller17 commented 5 years ago

This would be very interesting. We have used previous version of Sociometric Badges for research. I have made brief inquiries how to fabricate our own version of the open badges but given up pretty quickly. As social scientists with little to no hardware background you don't even know where to start. So, if this goes forward, excellent.

Happy to contribute on the data analysis side later on. I've written some R code to work with the previous badges https://github.com/jmueller17/sociometrics

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

Hi guys,

(also adding @jordanreedie and @MichaelHopfengaertner to the discussion)

I think it's a great idea, and will be happy to help. I was playing with the idea of trying order badges from PCBWay or Seeedstudio so I can make the assembly process more generic and easy for people. We are getting many requests for badges, so it can be a good way for enabling people to make their own.

Monetization might be a good idea. I'm not planning to get rich because of this project, but this money can help support some more development of the system and benefit the community (for example, designing a badge firmware "burning" tool that is easier to use...).

The only thing is that I currently don't have time to take lead on this (trying to wrap up my PhD this year, and handling a 2mo baby and a 2yo toddler..). But I will help with whatever I can. If there is enough interest, I might be able to pull in some more resources (students) to help.

Oh, also - we should refer to the project as Rhythm Badge (OpenBadge is an official Mozilla project, and they asked us to change the name). At some point i'll rename the repositories...

Also - fun fact - we have a new firmware version in the making (in a fork of the project). A complete re-write that will make it easier for people to contribute to the project. We are almost done testing all the existing functionality, and will soon start testing some new stuff (better protocol, accelerometer support, etc).

Cheers, Oren

eskofier commented 5 years ago

Oren, in case you are too busy, we can build badges for fellow researchers. All, it would be important to know the demand for badges. 10, 100, 1000?

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

I actually haven't been keeping good track of the requests recently. Typically, people ask for some andges (about 10) to try out , and later on might need more. But making the badges by itself isn't too time consuming for me. Here are the problems I see:

So by creating a community I'm hoping to made the information needed more available and help people help each other. Hopefully, in a way that scales.

patcon commented 5 years ago

Ordering badges is about Ricky nowdays because of the shortage in capacitors.

I knew Ricky was behind it. He is admittedly a bit tricky.

patcon commented 5 years ago

And @eskofier, might that offer apply to civic technologists who are working on citizen science initiatives? We are part of the g0v.asia civic tech community (prounounced "gov-zero"), working loosely with PDIS, part of the Taiwanese government.

We were looking to do a first run of 15. No pressure. (Email is patrick.c.connolly @ the googles)

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

Bah. That's what happens when I try to write quickly on my phone. I miss my blackberry keyboard...

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 10:57 Patrick Connolly notifications@github.com wrote:

Ordering badges is about Ricky nowdays because of the shortage in capacitors.

I knew Ricky was behind it. He is admittedly a bit tricky.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/HumanDynamics/openbadge/issues/109#issuecomment-433083868, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAWUCX9Ij2m7JN0Z9SSchmlqt_aGxNUcks5uodFAgaJpZM4X5x_h .

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

Oh, by the way - just noticed that you mentioned beacons. I don't know if I mentioned it, but we typically use badges as beacons (instead of off-the-shelf beacons). It allows us to manage them better through the system - setting their IDs from the server and monitoring their battery.

iBeacons should be fine though, but we haven't done excessive tests with them.

sgilbert92 commented 5 years ago

fyi we'd like to start a new project with using the badges in classrooms, and another project where we'd like to use them them in assisted living facilities. So I'd easily want to order a couple hundred.

Stephen Gilbert

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 11:42 AM Oren Lederman notifications@github.com wrote:

Oh, by the way - just noticed that you mentioned beacons. I don't know if I mentioned it, but we typically use badges as beacons (instead of off-the-shelf beacons). It allows us to manage them better through the system - setting their IDs from the server and monitoring their battery.

iBeacons should be fine though, but we haven't done excessive tests with them.

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OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

It's getting busy in here :-) . @patcon - another thing to consider is hosting a simple forums system somewhere to make it easier to ask questions and create discussions. Is this something that Seeed/PCBWay offer as part of their community projects?

patcon commented 5 years ago

I've been investigating the seeed/pcbway systems for most of the afternoon, and it seems that they're pretty rudimentary. They offer comments and "likes", but no forums per se. I wouldn't want to try to manage a community over there -- just allow ordering and simple interactions. I'll think on other options. I might lean toward github (perhaps another repo) until that fails or gets complaints, just because that seems in flow with the other work flow?

PCBway actually seems better than seeed. PCBway allows you to share a project, and someone can add a PCB to the cart. There is a specific place on the project page to attach a BOM, and I think the idea is that you can then add another line item to the cart by asking for assembly. It's not seamless, but it's not bad.

Another option, though unsure how pricing would look: https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/how-to-sell-your-widget-on-sparkfun#option-2-sparkfun-manufactures-you-get-a-royalty (perk of sparkfun is that they're fully assembled and have a high standard for docs and support)

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

I think that github is ok for tracking issues, but sometimes you just want to have a discussion, or ask questions. In particular, people ask me a lot of questions about tips for deployment and data analysis. Saving these questions in a forum instead of emails can be useful :) I'll try to look into that, and see where I can host something like that.

patcon commented 5 years ago

I feel that.

To summarize: we've currently got:

Potential options for future:

My preference is to cover more space that GitHub doesn't with minimal hurdles of participating, and so for me:

Gitter > Google Groups > Discourse

Anyone else have thoughts or suggestions?

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

I'm not a huge fan of synchronous chat for large discussions. I think it's a good tool when you routinely work with other people and when you need to coordinate stuff (and we might need it sometimes).

What I had in mind is more of a forum system. I'm thinking of the other use cases that I see, which is mostly Q&A and support - manufacturing/fabrication, questions about deployments (base stations and server) and data analysis. Creating topics will allow you to reduce clutter and make it easier to search (think stack overflow).

I'm not sure what the solution is right now, I'll have to think about it for a bit.

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

Also, going back to one of the original questions here - does anyone have a preference for PCBWay or SeeedStudio? I can try and order a small batch of badges from one of them and see if the quality is ok

patcon commented 5 years ago

Thanks for asking! I spent some time comparing them:

PCBWay seems to have a better "project sharing" feature, so I was gearing to order from them.

Seeedstudio (as in, their project sharing feature) seems to be more for ppl coloring within the lines, building stuff from polished kits)

patcon commented 5 years ago

Not ready for primetime yet, but I've set up stubs for project pages, so that others can see what it might look like to host on PCBWay: https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/Rhythm_Badge.html https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/Rhythm_Badge_Programmer.html?x=1

patcon commented 5 years ago

Another option for community websites (which seems pretty compatible with all of Mouser/Digikey and PCBWay), is Kitspace: https://kitspace.org/boards/github.com/8bitmixtape/8bitmixtapeneo_berlinerschule_sz-rdy/

It's also an open source project itself, which is nice 🎉 (cc @kasbah)

kasbah commented 5 years ago

Hey, creator of Kitspace here. Obviously biased but some advantages I believe Kitspace has over other options:

Full disclosure: I do currently earn and collect 10% commission on any order referred to PCBWay and Aisler. This has earned me about $70 in one year :slightly_smiling_face: . Once this hits some kind of workable threshold (where we can support the development of the site with it) we will look into passing this on to project creators.

If you are happy to put it up on Kitspace, I am happy to help you out with it. So let me know. Either way, this is a really interesting project. Do you think it could help people with Prosopagnosia?

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

Thanks Kaspar (are you monitoring conversations about Kitspace? :)). I'll look into it more, but so far I see two issues:

  1. When you place the order through Kitspace is only fills in the PCB info, but not the PCBA
  2. A really cool feature that I'm missing is assigning a list of alternative parts. Especially now with the world shortage in capacitors.
kasbah commented 5 years ago

Haha, no. @patcon @'ed me so I got a notification.

  1. Yes, it's only for PCB info for now. Extracting all the PCBA info and making sure it's correct is much harder. Does PCBWay offer this on their project sharing platform?
  2. You can keep adding MPNs per line for alternatives. For the retailer parts (SKU) you have to select one per retailer, should figure out how to add alternatives there too. :thinking:
OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

You might be right - I don't see an option for PCBA with PCBWay or SeeedStudino project pages. Umm.

mannokwong commented 5 years ago

Hi all! I am just aware of the discussion here :) My open badges have been put into production yesterday, and I am using Seeed Studio PCBA. Maybe I can keep you guys inform and share my experience with you! Hope I can help. Cheers

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

Thanks @mannokwong , that'll be very helpful

patcon commented 5 years ago

Been playing around with a service called Octopart, for comparing and ordering from variation distributors. It's a pretty good user experience to sanity-check the parts, and shop for alternatives if things get sold out or go on back-order

Here's the BOM, staying as try as possible to the most recent BOM for v3.6: https://octopart.com/bom-tool/TAh4HILh

I'll leave that one as is, and create copies for any experimentation with other parts.

We should strive to store out version-controlled BOM in a format that's a simple as possible to import -- I had to do some munging in a spreadsheet. The eagle settings:

EDIT: Made some custom BOMs linked here, with some substituted parts that were sold out: https://hackmd.io/s/H1mc0oj9Q#2018-11-08 (Would appreciate some feedbacks on the substitutions from someone in the know before ordering..! The UI is thankfully pretty intuitive for reviewing substitutes.)

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

Hi Patric,

I suggest moving the BOM recommendations to a separate issue (if you haven't already), just so it's easier to track.

Going back to the forum - I think that a google group is a good solution. I prefer a forum over a "chat", since It allows you to open issues and organizes the information better.

Project page (and documentation) I should be able to host on our MIT site. I'll check.

mannokwong commented 5 years ago

img_6440 img_6447 I have finally received the badges from the manufacturer :D I tried Seeedstudio, but you can try other like PCBway.

And the next step would be the programming part... (but I need to buy the Nordic's nRF51 Development Kit first...) I would be happy to share my experience with you.

patcon commented 5 years ago

Oh, we received our parts and boards from pcbway this past weekend, using the octopart BOMs above. Will be meeting on Tues to assemble some

patcon commented 5 years ago

Project page (and documentation) I should be able to host on our MIT site. I'll check.

Might we instead be able to use GitHub pages or some other platforms where the process to contribute changes is a bit more clear and direct? (Or rather, if someone were interested in creating such a banner website, would it be supported?)

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

@mannokwong - the badge looks good in black :) I take it that you placed the components yourself? For a very quick check, if you put a battery in a turn it on, the red LED should turn on. It'll only validate that the nrf51 chip is ok.

@patcon - let me look into the github pages option. It looks like a good option for a community driven solution. A website would require user management and permissions. So far, it sounds like github pages (for content) + google group (for discussions) is a good option.

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

Hi all, I opened a google group for us - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/rhythm-badges We should move general discussion and question there.

patcon commented 5 years ago

Thanks Oren! Did you intend to create it as a Discussion Board? If so, these don't allow forwarding emails: screen shot 2018-12-01 at 12 54 34 am

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

Yup. Following your advise, I activated posting via email (and allowed posting questions too). Does it look ok now?

patcon commented 5 years ago

:+1:

And can we remove the need to request access, and just make it immediate to join? If that creates a future issue, we can easily roll back in response.

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

good idea. done

On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 12:31 PM Patrick Connolly notifications@github.com wrote:

👍

And can we remove the need to request access, and just make it immediate to join? If that creates a future issue, we can easily roll back in response.

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mannokwong commented 5 years ago

img_0028

@OrenLederman Yeah, seems it works (the red LED turning on!). But I found that it is so difficult to remove the battery.

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

Oh. You can either use a very thin flat screwdriver, or better yet, a metal sim card removal tool. The later a very cheap on ebay. You stick them on the lower right corner of the battery holder and just pop the battery out.

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 12:49 AM Man-Nok Wong notifications@github.com wrote:

[image: img_0028] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/26022424/49355304-ef807000-f701-11e8-8234-5bcafc482e77.jpg

@OrenLederman https://github.com/OrenLederman Yeah, seems it works (the red LED turning on!). But I found that it is so difficult to remove the battery.

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patcon commented 5 years ago

@OrenLederman Would you be in favour of making the wiki editable by all github users? Was going to add your comment somewhere in there.

Everything in wiki is git backed, so even on the remote change of vandalism, it's still a non-issue so long as someone notices. (And if more people care for the wiki, that's more people to notice :) )

OrenLederman commented 5 years ago

I think it's better to wait until I open a new repo with github pages. It's safer to have these changes reviewed as pull requests. What do you think?

In the meantime (until I get to this... I'm focusing on some analysis that need to be finished soon), we can collect these changes as part of the main README so they are not lost/forgotten.

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 10:52 AM Patrick Connolly notifications@github.com wrote:

@OrenLederman https://github.com/OrenLederman Would you be in favour of making the wiki editable by all github users? Was going to add your comment somewhere in there.

Everything in wiki is git backed, so even on the remote change of vandalism, it's still a non-issue so long as someone notices. (And if more people care for the wiki, that's more people to notice :) )

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/HumanDynamics/openbadge/issues/109#issuecomment-443758923, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAWUCXc8mnZyVWmSbF6Ji9bfOuTO1b70ks5u1Ui3gaJpZM4X5x_h .