Guild Buildings

[Z0MGBBQ]

• Guild Hall:
  • Governs the maximum level of all other buildings (ie. all other buildings can't be raised above the level of the Guild Hall)
• Vault:
  • Holds gold and lets members donate gold
  • Higher tiers hold more gold
  • Gold in vault required for guildmaster to purchase stuff.
• Guild shop:
  • Offers guildmembers (unique?) items to buy (and to sell their current items?)
  • Higher tiers could supply more items, more types, better generated items, lower countdown between generation of items etc.
  • It could be a combination of generated items and items that guild-members have sold
  • Guildmaster could possibly specify the %'s of "real" value that items are sold/bought for as the shop would work with the vault. (reasonable defaults a must)
• Stables?:
  • Handles (guild?) pets
  • Higher tiers could hold more pets and provide better training etc.
  • Could hold (guild?) pets, possibly train them, possibly fetch items for the guild shop, if guild pets they could fight in guild-battles, possibly pets could have sex in stables and become pregnant and create offspawn.
• Academy:
  • Lets Guildmaster spend gold on buffs that affects all guildmembers
  • Higher tiers offer more buffs and higher leveled buffs (eg. academy level 1 offer a con buff, academy level 2 offers con buff level 2 + str buff level 1+2)

Sidenote: I think guilds should have several ranks and dependant on guild rank more options become available to the guild-member. Requirement to progress in rank could be gold generated for guild through donating and buying items from guild shop

[seiyria]

See also: #408.

Maybe call them Guildings.

[seiyria]

Possible idea: Barracks. Barracks would let you start a war with other guilds (whether or not they have a barracks is irrelevant). Battles should possibly contribute to a ranking of some sort. See #408.

[Khaoila]

Ok so I don't have a name for it but a building where the guildmaster can unlock personalities for people in the guild to have access to perhaps titles if they do anything I hadn't checked at this point in time

[seiyria]

Maybe also there could be a miniature item shop that sells stuff from #537. Although #537 would have to be implemented first, but still.

[Khaoila]

Fortune teller that gives you a Providence(lite) -- just the event, probably - not necessarily the item. However, if it were upgrade enough it could give you a slightly-more-likely chance to be a positive providence instead of a -3:2 chance, maybe it could be -1:4.

[sedgwick]

You could actually have maps made that you can access. maybe you found the guild in a town, so when in that town you can access it like the store. You could have a map for each building upgrade, if they have to be bought in order. That would also allow special collectibles only accessible when in a guild.

Could have different looking maps depending on which city the guild is founded in. Homlet would have a cave looking map, different looking cities for others.

Summoning Portal: Either buy a temporary summon of a current boss (which could be hugely expensive, like an elite sort of feature used when you want a lot of people to get access to a fight) or a new set of boss parties specifically for the portal. I picture it being like a scheduled guild event when many members will be on at the same time so they can all show up and try and get a chance. Not sure how boss timers would work in this scenario, would need more discussion.

Maybe a super expensive option to buy a teleport directly to the guild hall (or not, since town teleports are already a thing). These could be temporary features, like current guild buffs, bought per person (referring to #537, could be teleport scrolls, runes, tokens or even sold through the item shop in your earlier comment), or added to the list like town teleports.

Buy a statue: Select a sprite, add a tag. Could be mascot, welcome sign to the map, Guild Master Ego Boost.

An extension of the vault could be as an item vault. (#537 items, not player equipment)

[seiyria]

I really like that idea, @sedgwick. I think, to accommodate existing guilds, they would have to "set their base" so guilds could be moved around for a fee, for example.

It's not that it's technically infeasible either; I'm just not certain how I would do it ... I would probably store a separate map per guild hall, and remove it when the guild is disbanded. It's a little more work than I had initially anticipated, but I think it's worth doing. I would also have "templates" for each town, and the buildings would have to have pre-determined locations. Maybe you could even buy trainers for your guild hall? That'd be cool. Also, you could buy teleports to certain areas for money, too! Maybe different locations have different "slots" for what buildings you can buy, and moving would reset your purchased buildings, so you'd have to start from scratch in a new location. I think the slots would come in groups, so you would have, say, 4 trainer slots, 2 teleport slots, and 4 building slots in some locations.

Additionally, as a sortof cosmetic thing, there should be a sign in each guild building that tells you what level it is.

The summoning portal idea sounds really cool, but it might have to come a bit later, unfortunately. Not sure what we can do about that currently. The idea of porting to the guild hall seems reasonable; it would probably be 100k, not too unreasonable but not too much either. To go with this, there should be a "guild hall" portal in each town, somewhere, that takes you to your guild hall if you're stationed in that area and you have a guild hall (ie, building a base in Norkos and finding the Guild Hall in Frigri would not take you to your Norkos Guild Hall).

Teleports would definitely be cool, and scrolls, and such, but I think those will come later.

The statue idea, is, of course, great. Cosmetic, simple, and glorious.

For my (technical) reference:

• players who log out in a guild hall should always be sent to a specific, predetermined coordinate if they log back in to one (ie, if the map changes, they could be stuck otherwise)
• maps should be re-generated every time the game restarts, just in case guild halls have changed in layout -- ie, guild data should be stored in lists, not the map itself.

[devinep52]

i'm all for it, exactly as is

[sedgwick]

Quests (#384) could happen here in some way as well. Since there's currently very little documented discussion on quests, how quests could be adapted is still really up in the air.

It could be something as simple as having the option to take quests from a quest giver available on the map, or something more detailed like guild quests to gather guild resources to build new things/act as trophies.

I more just wanted to reference it here for the future, since it's two systems that are both not built yet.

[devinep52]

Along that note @sedgwick , would be awesome if the guild leader could "purchase" boss battles or raid-like quests where people from the guild will get pulled in to try to get a collectible and a bunch of experience.

[devinep52]

I think that easily ties in with already existing features at least

[sedgwick]

Guild trophies could be some sort of stat that guild could compete against. It could be a random type of item with a certain value (should be measured in coins, but it's a trophy so the guild wouldn't want to sell it). So, Guild X finds a trophy "Chalice of expensiveness" worth 1M gold, and later Guild Y finds a trophy "amulet of elusive fox traps" worth 1.2M gold. Keep track of the top 10 trophies and each guild page can show what their trophy is. Even if the implementation goes nothing like this, some sort of trophy system would be a great guild competitive stat to track.

Not sure how the trophies are earned. Could be an extremely rare event for players? Maybe you have to risk, paying money to take a quest or quest like chance at finding a trophy and if one is found it broadcast an event for the guild.

[seiyria]

Yes, there are plenty of tie-ins here @devinep52 - if not, there should be, and I will make one accordingly, haha.

@sedgwick - I like that! That's a way guilds can compete without really competing, per se. I think there could be a couple ways to do it. It could be a random item that shows up in a shop (costing it's face value, of course), or it could be a really rare drop from any combat, or, perhaps even better, there should be a bunch of trophies that have different unlock conditions -- basically, they'd be achievements for the guilds. Value is another great way to do it, because you could have one trophy worth 1M, or 5 trophies worth 100k each. I'm definitely in favor of this, and I think it will make having a guild completely worthwhile.

The only thing to consider, though, is how many trophies to implement and what their specific conditions to unlock are.

[sedgwick]

Tavern/Inn - Only have ideas for 2 levels of a building like this. Could look similar to the Norkos Secret Building Inn (a few 1x1 rooms where tired adventurers would rest, open bar area, etc.). Could be upgraded to have questgiver or more.

[seiyria]

I like that idea. We could use #122 for that. We have to implement #122 first though.

[Latinx]

I would like for a percentage of gold earned per guild member to go directly to the guild bank.

Members gotta pay their dues so why not a automatic direct deposit.

The way it'll work is a % of each gold earned (i.e latin found a lottery ticket worth 8000 gold, woah! - will get a deduction of 5-20% that will DD to the GB)

[seiyria]

That's an intriguing idea, and one that certainly makes some aspects of managing a guild easier. I think the way I would go about it is any time a player earns gold, some is sent to the guild. The % tax for the guilds should definitely be configurable, maybe from 0-100% of income being directed towards the guild. This would allow guilds to have different forms of appeal based on their tax, as well as adjust this as necessary.

[sedgwick]

A guild probably shouldn't be able to take 100% tax, otherwise what if someone changed it from a low percent to a high percent without saying anything? Perhaps guilds have a tax value and players can adjust an option where they can donate beyond the tax value?

Another guild building could be a farm/orchard. It could be a long term buff or gold making investment. Pick a crop or tree and a lengthy real world amount of time passes before benefits could be yielded. The reason I was leaning towards orchard is because there's already tree/mushroom sprites that could be used, but also the lengthy real world time better relates to the fast passage of time (if #326's numbers are still accurate, about 5 years a day). It could simply be an idle process of waiting for the plant to grow, or there could be some kind of maintenance that would need to be done by tending the crops.

Since it would take a lengthy real world amount of time for something like this to pay off, there should definitely be pros and cons to each crop that would need to be balanced by real time invested by the player, how fickle the crop may be, how long the players are willing to wait for payoff.

[seiyria]

Sure, that's not unreasonable. Perhaps we turn this around like so:

• Guilds can enforce a tax of 0-15%
• Players can self-enforce an additional tax of 0-85%

The sum of which is the % tax incurred on the player, and subsequently donated to the guild.

Ahhh, implementing farmville into the game. As much as I like the idea, we'll have to see. I definitely will consider it, though, as having "buildings" that are able to contain different things are not something I had not previously considered (although I am doing so now).

I am going back on my previous statement of having "teleport slots" and "trainer slots" ... instead, maybe you'll buy a "trainer building" and it will have a trainer in it. Same with a teleport building. In this vein, I think it will be "this building takes up this much space, and there are this many slots that it can fit into" and some buildings will just be larger than others.

[sedgwick]

instead, maybe you'll buy a "trainer building" and it will have a trainer in it. Same with a teleport building.

That would also allow the different trainer buildings to look unique on the map.

[seiyria]

What do you mean? Like, different tiles for each building? I was probably going to have the same general layout per building, but maybe have a trainer in the middle, or something. Obviously the trainer sprite would be different per building, but I'm not so sure about the building itself.

[sedgwick]

You're probably right. Consistency is probably better so it's easier to identify the different building purposes.

[seiyria]

566 should be implemented before this as well -- so class trainers can at least have some name associated with them (especially if there will be duplicates).

[seiyria]

So, here's a thought. What if people could specify where to build something in their base? They'd have to specify an orientation, and coordinates, so building might get complex, but would it be cool? Or is it just a needless level of complexity?

[sedgwick]

It would have to account for players trying to do things like create inescapable areas from being boxed in. Have you had any interest in player housing? The more complex "build a guild" seems to match something specific to the player more than a guild. I feel a pre-fabricated layout might work best for guilds, since I assume the only guild hall you'll be able to visit is your own, so it will feel exclusive to you and your guild anyways.

For something like player housing though, the orientation and coordinate system would fit perfect, but that's a whole other can of worms.

[seiyria]

You aren't wrong, and I'm glad you brought it up. I agree with you, and I think that prefabricated layouts will work best for guilds.

As for player housing, really, I have no idea. It sounds cool, and it might be cool, but that's not a discussion I'm ready to have yet. We'll see how this first step (ie, prefab) goes. If it was too much work for not enough benefit, then probably not. If people really like it and we can expand the system in interesting ways, then maybe.

[seiyria]

I project that each building will level up infinitely.

My projections:

• Guild hall costs will be about 100000 per level, compounding. first will be free, level 2 is 100000, level 3 is 200000, 4 is 300000, etc. If you don't level up your guild hall, none of your other buildings can level up. It should start small, though, to accommodate the guild vault upgrading. Or maybe the guild vault should start larger.
• Vault will start small: 1000. You pay 1000 to increase it by a factor of 10 (so, next upgrade is 10k, then 100k, then 1m, then 10m -- so on).
• Guild shop will be upgradeable -- I think it's fine to explore different upgrade routes, so you could upgrade quantity, quality; there are a few other variables that could be upgraded. They would, consequently, be upgradeable in the same fashion, however they will be expensive (of course). I would like to do the "separate upgrade" thing, but I'm not sure yet. The guild will need to also have a constant flow of money to allow members to buy items -- the specific interaction here is not defined, but there should be a merchant fee.
• Stables will not yet be implemented. I think it's fine to explore this later when pets are tradeable / sellable. Maybe pets in the stable could go "over max" on some stats, unlocking a hidden level of capability they didn't know they had. Instead of gold, this would take time (the building would not be upgradeable) -- probably, a week per pet per level. Pets will gain a new "overmax capability" stat (hidden, not upgradeable) that will determine how many levels they can go over their maximum. Additionally, not every stat will be able to go over max; some might have 2 levels over, some might have none.
• Academy - having this will allow you to purchase guild buffs. TBD on if it should be upgradeable (on top of having to buy buffs, and having member requirements, as well as guild level requirements). Perhaps, upgrading the academy could get permanent, lesser buffs. +1% / level - similar progression (100k, 200k, 300k, 400k -- etc).
• Barracks - upgrading this would allow you to attack a guild x times per day, within a certain level/member count range of you. Everyone in both guilds would be involved (provided they're online). This would not require consent of the other guild. Attacks would be calculated on a weekly basis, with upgrades following a similar (albeit, more expensive) path -- 1m, 2m, 3m -- etc.
• Personal shop - members can put their items up for sale. Upgrading allows for more storage slots. Slots would be cheap, and maybe just a static cost per item.
• Fortune Teller - it would run a mini providence event for the player who buys a fortune. It could be upgraded to provide more positive results; perhaps starting with a poor ratio (-4:1), but moving towards better ratios (-1:4). Cost would be quadratic, because it would get way too good way too fast otherwise.
• Raid Simulator - I'm not sure if this should be "buy a boss" or "buy a building, and upgrade it to unlock different statistics to test a boss with" or what.
• Teleport rooms - buy a teleport to a trainer, location, or something like that. Small rooms that can be placed all over.
• Mascot - Not really a building, but it can be given an arbitrary sprite and flavor text.
• Quest building - Guild members could buy quests here, and embark on them with other members. Will first require quests to be implemented.
• Tavern - could be for getting players drunk, whatever purpose this may serve.
• Farm - could produce usable items for players, when that's introduced. You could set the farm to produce x% of one item, x% of another item, and upgrades would unlock more items / faster production rates.
• Enchantress - you can buy a random enchantment (tinker, enchant event) -- possibly for a specific item, but the higher the enchant level, the higher the probability of your item blowing up. Upgrades slightly lower the chance of blowing up your item, and increase the max enchantable level of the enchantress. Eventually, the enchantress could possibly go over the max level enchantment. So, the enchantress could enchant at a level/10 rate (level 100 could be +10). An enchantment would only be "Safe" (ie, no chance of blowing your item up) when you get 20 levels over the level it was learned at (going to +11 is only safe if your enchantress is level 130. at level 120, it has a 50% chance of breaking).

Implementation details:

• Each building will have a popup in WebFE to manage that specific building. There is no other way to do that.
• players that log out in a guild hall get sent to their base town
• maps are rebuilt on game restart
• Guild trophies can be earned by a guild, and optionally displayed somehow -- probably just as a collection on idle.land for now.
• Guild leader should be able to enforce a tax, and guild members should be able to set their own "tax" (leader can enforce from 0-15%, members can put the rest in if they want to themselves).
• building levels are saved permanently, even if you change bases. you can swap buildings freely in your guild area, provided you have space.
• any guild building that has multiple "aspects" to level up will have each aspect calculated on a mod-basis. This means that every third level might boost your statX, every second level might boost your statY, and every sixth level might boost statZ.
• You should have to buy separate teleports to get to your base. So, you get your current base for free (and if you change bases, that one comes free too), but you can optionally buy access from other towns, too. So if your base is in Norkos, and you step on the guild teleport in Frigri, you could spend some gold to make that teleport send you to your current guild hall.

[sedgwick]

Depending on how you want the core idea to go, here are a couple ways I could see guild trophies working. I like the idle.land display for guild trophies though, no matter how it gets implemented. Because at the end of the day, a trophy is just something to show off, not really provide a bonus.

Trophies like items

• Could drop off bosses at a low chance (or, optionally, low chance + only with a group that has at least another guild member in it)
• Could be like items and get prefixes, suffixes, rarity, and a gold amount. Since this is something that would be great for the global stats as its own section "Top 10 guild trophies" they could be ordered by most expensive trophies found possibly?
• Later there could be guild trophies for quests, or perhaps a quest to kill a boss has a slightly higher chance to drop the trophy?
• If they did come off bosses, then they could be added on to a boss like boss items are. Any boss that didn't have their own could just have a chance to drop from a random list of trophies.

Trophies like achievements

• You mention giving them values earlier, but if the trophy is the achievement, i'm not sure what the point of the value would be?
• At this point, it would just be player achievements at higher numbers. Many of the types of achievements would be the same, but there are a few unique aspects that you could add, like "all guild buildings rank 1" kind of thing.

Other ideas:

• Perhaps you have to have a certain building before the guild can even collect trophies?
• Need fame for certain trophies?

[seiyria]

Interesting. Maybe it would be better to wait for fame (#627) to be implemented, so trophies could give off fame.

I like the idea of having them be like items -- then they're run through the random generator, and can provide a varying score. However, I also like the "stability" (if you will) of having them be like achievements. But I also like the idea of trophies being rare drops. Maybe it would be worth having some compromise in there -- have them remain constant (unlike items; like achievements), but have a drop rate (like items; unlike achievements). I don't know where they would go if they were items though -- a guild inventory? And could guilds sell their trophies?

Having bosses drop "a random trophy" might be problematic, as it means we'd have to keep a list of all trophies available. It's not the end of the world, but we'll have to figure something out.

Of course, I like the idea of having a leaderboard -- we'll have to make a global statistics for guilds eventually as well. The current global statistics page is probably not going to get any further boxes as it performs very poorly as it is.

I like quests for trophies. #384 is a ways away unfortunately.

The reason to give trophies values (even if they're achievements) is because different guilds would have different trophies, and you could still value them, such that guilds could compete to have the highest trophy score. As much as the rest of the game does this (ie, "Rank 1, Rank 2, Rank 3 -- etc"), I think we might be able to do something more with guild trophies (maybe even put them on display in guild halls, who knows!). Perhaps the latter point would feed into your "requiring a guild building" -- guilds could build a trophy hall.

Perhaps, when getting certain landmarks (which in most cases would spring an achievement), instead the guild would have a trophy added to its theoretical guild inventory (and like pets, it would be flagged so it can't accidentally be re-earned).

Overall, I'm not sure, but I like where this discussion is going. Guild trophies might not make it into the initial guild buildings implementation though; I think it's more feasible to implement them after Fame and Quests are implemented.

Consequently, I think guild fame could simply be an aggregate (or average) of the fame of its members, much like level is.

Thoughts?

[sedgwick]

Guild fame: I kinda like the idea of it being the aggregate. A guild would be marginally more famous for inviting a low fame hero, not overall less famous.

edit: additionally, it would give you something else to add to the global guild stats page, "highest fame guilds"

[sedgwick]

Maybe it would be worth having some compromise in there --

I think your compromise works great. If stability is what you want, then you get that with naming the item yourself through the boss.json and letting the item generator give you unique versions of each one. Though, the gold amount may need to also be slightly random. What if two guilds, by chance, generate the exact same prefixes and suffixes? Plus, you already have mechanics for drop chance with boss items, would that be usable for dropping trophies?

Selling a trophy? Guess that depends on how high a gold amount you want these items to generate. Here's why I think it might be a good thing though: A needy guild can use rare trophies to help fund guild buildings/buffs, but a high level guild, who has less trouble with funding, can instead use trophies for leaderboards. And leaderboards are their own reward, so you wouldn't have to offer anything for keeping the trophies. And since trophies have value, you don't have to worry about higher level guilds selling off all their trophies if they want to compete in the "highest total guild trophy amount" and not just "best trophy overall."

[seiyria]

I think that's a solid idea to roll with: make them an item, run them through a generator, but have them be, by default, static. Getting suffixes / prefixes on a trophy would probably be much rarer than with monsters or items. If two guilds get the same one, well.. two people can currently get a clone of an item without much trouble. It's rare, but it happens. I don't think think it's a huge deal, unless there's something I'm missing?

Correct, bosses would drop trophies using the existing mechanic.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. Sell your trophies to other guilds, or to a vendor (for a reduced price) to generate gold. You will, of course, sacrifice your trophies, but if you need the gold, that shouldn't be a problem. I can see a few potential leaderboard scores here:

• Best individual trophy
• Most trophies
• Most diversity of trophies
• Best "trophy rating"

.. which is more than enough of a reason for me to implement them this way; I like friendly competition. I still think I will wait until fame is completed to add trophies entirely, but I think, after guild buildings, I will work on fame, so I can get this guild update pushed out some time before the end of february. Quests will come way later.

[sedgwick]

I don't think think it's a huge deal, unless there's something I'm missing?

Only reason I thought of was if you have one item that ends up being more valuable than others, so you end up with several "trophy of the storm" that are tied for best or something. But it could be a non-issue.

[seiyria]

Nah, that's definitely not a huge issue. Cool, so I'll plan on that for the implementation strategy for trophies. We're probably going to need some more acquisition methods, but for now, boss drops will be sufficient I think. I'll probably add a trophy to a few bosses (Wardens, Guardian Lord, Mino King, etc).

[seiyria]

Progress can be followed here: https://github.com/IdleLands/IdleLands/tree/guild-buildings

Guild trophies will be moved to a separate issue once this one is closed out.

[seiyria]

Well, buildings are constructable and upgradeable, though most don't yet do anything. Implementations incoming.