Forward momentum not retained on sprinting jumps

[dyskos]

Jumping forward while walking retains the same speed while doing so. However, jumping forward while sprinting does not.

The first sprinting jump is at the same speed as sprinting, but every consecutive jump afterward is done at walking speed.

Easier to notice with a character with a high jumping skill. Very noticeable if set_runspeed = 30.

Current pattern of jumps: Walking: Short, Short, Short, Short, etc. Running: Long, Short, Short, Short, etc.

Expected pattern of Jumps: Walking: Short, Short, Short, Short, etc. Running: Long, Long, Long, Long, etc.

OS: Windows 7 DFUnity Version: 0.10.10

Not save-dependent, but here's a decently running skilled character in the Wayrest castle courtyard with plenty of space to run around and test this behavior:

SAVE1.zip

[petchema]

How does it work in classic? Would it help with "platforming" cases, like in Mantellan Crux?

[dyskos]

It works as the "expected" pattern.

Specifically, the character will long jump whenever the sprint button is held.

It does help in platforming cases, but also getting away from enemies. Currently, the jump only long jumps the first time, and then goes back to short jumps.

[bansheexyz]

The OP is talking about "Bunnyhopping". It's this ultra-unrealistic mechanic that makes spamjumping just as fast as sprinting. So everyone starts bunnyhopping exclusively to move because it makes you way harder to hit and there's no downside. It's also disorienting and unpleasant to watch. Imagine every let's play of an first-person game looking like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw5lKtvpv4g

I used to play a lot of HL1 deathmatch, so I know what it is. It's basically a "Quake" mechanic, but HL1 was made with a modded Quake engine, so it inherited it. The mechanic died with HL2 and Counter-Strike, but people still have some kind of misguided reverence towards it.

[dyskos]

You're comment is entirely misguided and unnecessary. It is already possible to bunny hop in original Daggerfall and in Daggerfall Unity.

I am not asking to implement bunny-hopping (which is already implemented), I'm asking to replicate vanilla behavior regarding forward speed while holding sprint while jumping. So your point is moot and unnecessary here.

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019, 10:07 AM bansheexyz notifications@github.com wrote:

The OP is talking about "Bunnyhopping". It's this ultra-unrealistic mechanic that makes spamjumping just as fast as sprinting. So everyone starts bunnyhopping exclusively to move because it makes you way harder to hit and there's no downside. It's also disorienting and unpleasant to watch. Imagine every let's play of an first-person game looking like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw5lKtvpv4g

I used to play a lot of HL1 deathmatch, so I know what it is. The mechanic died with HL2 and Counter-Strike, but people still have some kind of misguided reverence towards it.

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[bansheexyz]

I am not asking to implement bunny-hopping (which is already implemented),

The term is not used to describe simply performing successive jumps. The jumping has to have no friction penalty for landing. It's basically a coding oversight in old games that people learned to exploit for an advantage.

John Carmack on a similar buggy mechanic:

Strafe jumping is an exploitable bug. Just because people have practiced hard to allow themselves to take advantage of it does not justify its existence. When I tried fixing the code so that it just didn’t work, I thought it changed the normal running movement in an unfortunate way.

In the absence of powerups or level features (wind tunnels, jump pads, etc), the game characters are supposed to be badasses with big guns. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sigourney Weaver don’t get down a hallway by hopping like a bunny rabbit.

This is personal preference, but when I play online, I enjoy it more when people are running around dodging, rather than hopping.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/09/02/quake-3-john-carmack-strafejumping/

[dyskos]

Needlessly angry point still irrelevant, as bhopping is already implemented, and what I'm asking is for the behavior to work consistently, not even just compared to vanilla, but compared to itself, as forward momentum is already kept for walking speed, it only doesn't do so for sprinting.

I'm not a coder, but I imagine the fault is that the jump mechanic isn't checking that the user is holding the sprint function when jumping more than once.

In vanilla, the user can hold the jump button, and switch between walking speed jumps and running speed jumps only contingent on the status of the sprint function.

That's all I'm asking -- it's a bug report, not a feature request, and has nothing to do with the nature of bhopping in video games.

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019, 4:04 PM bansheexyz notifications@github.com wrote:

I am not asking to implement bunny-hopping (which is already implemented),

The term is not used to describe simply performing successive jumps. The jumping has to have no friction penalty for landing. It's basically a coding oversight in old games that people learned to exploit for an advantage.

John Carmack on a similar buggy mechanic:

Strafe jumping is an exploitable bug. Just because people have practiced hard to allow themselves to take advantage of it does not justify its existence. When I tried fixing the code so that it just didn’t work, I thought it changed the normal running movement in an unfortunate way.

In the absence of powerups or level features (wind tunnels, jump pads, etc), the game characters are supposed to be badasses with big guns. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sigourney Weaver don’t get down a hallway by hopping like a bunny rabbit.

This is personal preference, but when I play online, I enjoy it more when people are running around dodging, rather than hopping.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/09/02/quake-3-john-carmack-strafejumping/

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[Jeoshua]

I can confirm. Steps for replication are straightforward: hold forward, jump, and run. First jump is at run speed. Subsequent jumps are at walk speed.

And this isn't just an exploit to be avoided. This is a single player game focused on recreation of expected behavior. To claim its an exploit is like trying to remake Quake 1 without Rocket Jumps.

[bansheexyz]

This is a single player game focused on recreation of expected behavior.

Expected by who and which things? Physics and jump mechanics were broken in general. The gravity was floaty like being on the moon, you barely lifted off the ground, and you couldn't look around while jumping. There is no reason for any of this to be preserved.

PS. Rocket jumping broke Quake 1's level designs. Romero didn't know it could be done until after release when they saw videos of people circumventing puzzles and elevators. Not that DF has anything like this.

[petchema]

Gave a try at fixing this issue: https://github.com/Interkarma/daggerfall-unity/compare/master...petchema:keep-running

You can only switch running on/off when touching ground; But while hopping, switch seem to only happen on 2nd touch down, not the first one. I haven't found why

[petchema]

Okay, effective speed is delayed one hop because it's transmitted to movement by moveDirection = myTransform.TransformDirection(moveDirection) * playerMotor.Speed; in FrictionMotor.GroundedMovement(), which is called right after grounded condition has been detected. So first hop sets speed, second hop changes movement to match speed. Mmh

[petchema]

Should be fixed in 0.10.19