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Interlisp / medley

The main repo for the Medley Interlisp project. Wiki, Issues are here. Other repositories include maiko (the VM implementation) and Interlisp.github.io (web site sources)
https://Interlisp.org
MIT License
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Questions about Running Interlisp Online #1228

Open KathrynLA opened 1 year ago

KathrynLA commented 1 year ago

We say running online is a good starting point, but to develop and experiment with Lisp programs, you will need other options. I think this needs to explain:

pamoroso commented 1 year ago

Browser compatibility - What does this mean? What browsers might not be compatible? How will I know?

Interlisp Online connects the user to a remote Medley session via a remote desktop client called noVNC. noVNC is a web app with the following minimum browser requirements:

I think this is the browser compatibility Medley's site refers to.

pamoroso commented 1 year ago

Watch out for control-character conflicts (control-W always gets me) - How will I know what control-characters conflict?

Medley binds some of its commands to keyboard shortcuts that perform different actions, or have unintended consequences, in the web browsers within which Medley is accessed.

For example, in Medley the shortcut Ctrl-W (a control character in this specific case) deletes the word to thel left of the text caret. But in most web browsers Ctrl-W closes the current browser tab, which closes the very same tab within which Medley is accessed with Interlisp Online. So the user may end up closing the Interlisp Online session when they just wanted to delete a word.

pamoroso commented 1 year ago

why the other options are needed

Building Medley from source is useful for customizing, extending, learning the internals of, or porting Medley to other operating systems or computing environments.

Downloading a prebuilt executable package is better for running Medley offline on a desktop computer or local machine or with no Internet connection, as well as backing up and keeping more control over the files created with Medley.

In all other cases such as using, learning, and experimenting with Medley without installing anything on a local machine, Interlisp Online is recommended.

You need a solid net connection to our AWS server (currently in Ohio) - What is an AWS server? What do I need to do to have a net connection to the AWS server? How would I know if I have a solid connection? Why is it important that the AWS server is in Ohio?

The Interlisp Online infrastructure is hosted at the Amazon Web Services (AWS) cloud hosting provider on a server currently in Ohio.

When using Interlisp Online the user has no control over or knowledge of where the Medley infrastructure is hosted, or how it works. The only things the user needs are a compatible web browser and a broadband Internet connection that's responsive enough for at least streaming media or games. If Interlisp Online doesn't run acceptably fast there's nothing else the user can do.

Knowing the Interlisp Online server is in Ohio is useful for setting the right expectations on performance which, for example, might be worse in far areas such Europe or Asia.

Back to time-sharing: Maximum load ~24 simultaneous sessions - What do you mean by time-sharing? How do I know how many sessions are ongoing? How do I know if I am one of the sessions? Or if there are already a maximum number of sessions?

The Interlisp Online infrastructure can support a maximum of about 24 simultaneous users accessing the system, which reminds of the days of mainframes and minicomputers when a single machine was shared among a number of users connected via terminals. The Interlisp Online user has no knowledge of or control over how many simultaneous sessions the infrastructure is handling or can handle. If these limits are exceeded, the user will know as it will receive an error and won't be able to use the system.

The user doesn't probably need this information, which may be more appropriate to the documentation of Interlisp Online.

pamoroso commented 1 year ago

Security is not guaranteed - What does this mean? Will I get malware on my system if I run online? What could go wrong? This item is scary to someone not in the know. Seeing this item, I would just go away and forget it.

I don't have much insight into this, so I can only offer my understanding based on my experience with the Medley system and the Medley Interlisp project.

Although the Medley Interlisp project team comprises competent people with extensive experience as engineers, computer scientists, and researchers, they run, secure, and protect the Interlisp Online infrastructure on a best effort basis. Therefore, the user should expect standards of reliability, security, and privacy closer to those of an experimental project than of a production quality commercial service. In particular, the user is responsible for backing up their own files and data.

masinter commented 1 year ago

the text to replace is in Interlisp.github.io/content/en/medley/using/running/online/ I'm not sure it's a "best effort" -- we trade off some security for ease of maintenance and monitoring an experimental service. I'd like to reserve the right to monitor user's activities -- the biggest security risk would be to us.