Lai'tela Feedback Thread

[cyip92]

Describe the issue With multiple people getting the chance to try out the Lai'tela rework, we've all found various issues with it that need to be addressed. Having all the things everyone has run into in one place for when someone goes through to address them would be helpful, instead of having to sift through long conversations on discord.

[cyip92]

What we've found so far... Display issues:

• "Boost Lai'tela reality reward" has a problem with floating point precision
• The compression effect that speeds up dimension production behaves really weirdly with the 50ms cap, allowing you to purchase past it but not actually helping you in any way
• There's no indication on what Higgs do or how you get dark energy until you actually reset for the first time.
• There's no labeling anywhere that mentions that these are dark matter dimensions

Lai'tela mechanic issues:

• Chance upgrades quickly get to the point where they aren't worth the cost to upgrade any more with linear 1%/upgrade scaling (suggestion: make the chance scale up geometrically and/or adjust the costs) Another note is that chance seems to be mostly irrelevant in practice, so it might be worth considering reworking this part in general
• Interval upgrades cap very quickly (around e25 to e30) if the plan is to get all the way to e308 dark matter for the final celestial (suggestion: cost scaling in general probably needs to be redone here too)
• After a few resets, it seems like the way to get the quickest Higgs gain is multiple quick resets every minute or so due to chance and interval becoming relatively useless, which is really bad for various reasons
• Dark energy is mostly useless after you get all the upgrades (suggestion: have some kind of a sink for them, perhaps a rebuyable, or some constant effect from it)

Main-game balance issues:

• Lai'tela introduces 3 new currencies which only seem to be purely currencies and don't actually help the main game until a fair way in, which feels unrewarding (suggestion: make dark matter itself do something, like dimension cost scaling, so there's immediate main-game feedback; also change the last Higgs upgrade too)
• Lai'tela reality heavily favors 5 power glyphs over any other set since it's antimatter-based for its reward (from omsi: "wild idea: antimatter could increase dark matter gain, infinity points would increase higgs gain, and eternity points would increase dark energy gain. in order to update your bonus, you would have to reality, and then all your bonuses are set to whatever you realitied with (so you can't just do 1 reality for each type)")

QoL:

• After a few resets, rebuying all the dimension upgrades begins to require a very large number of clicks. Something as minimal as a Max All button would go a long way
• Unlike most other resets, Annihilation doesn't have a confirmation when you click it

Other:

• There are some lingering references to "matter" and not "dark matter" which need to be fixed throughout the code

Anything else that pops up should be added here too

[Acamaeda]

Dark matter seems to have a very slow start after each reset, particularly early on. Letting the player start out with a couple of free upgrades after the first reset or something might help.

Boosting the different resources independently could be problematic. It would make the best strategy to get the HB multiplier up immediately before resetting, and then immediately focus on DM or DE instead, so for every Annihilation you need to do a Lai'tela reality before and after with different glyph sets.

[Acamaeda]

Looking back on it, I think the biggest problem with Lai'tela is that it can't compete with the other mechanics that you're dealing with at the same time. Doing stuff with alchemy and time compression is complex and interesting, most of the stuff you need to do for Lei'tela is sit there and buy upgrades. I wonder if one of the other mechanics might be more suitable for a Celestial.

[Acamaeda]

A couple of ideas from the Discord:

• Dark Energy give an inherent boost and not be used as a currency
• DM dimensions after the 1st are unlocked by different tiers of Lei'tela completions

[garnet420]

Some stuff from discord from me:

• If DM produces a passive bonus, then resetting means you lose that passive bonus for a while -- which, in effect, will mean you can do relatively little. This is kind of like buying dilation upgrades in current late game. The best you can do while waiting for dilated time to come back up is farm infinities.

• The mechanics of lai'tela are really about maximizing dark energy production. So, it makes more sense to me to make dark energy be the thing that produces a passive bonus, or has a rebuyable upgrade, or quantity milestones.

• having dark energy being produced in proportion to dark matter means that its growth rate will be rather high -- which might make scaling rewards difficult. We might want a logarithmic production for dark energy.

[realrapidjazz]

Ok so me and Spec have come up with something to do with a ‘Lai’tela second prestige’ which for now is being called singularities.

The idea is that at some arbitrary Dark energy (DE) value, it is capped and you can reset DE (and only DE) to get a singularity. This is a stat, not a currency, that works similar to eternity milestones.

At the start, this will let you buy the one-time only DE upgrades again. The DE ‘cap’ stays at 1e6, and you can reset at that point again to grab another singularity, and another bonus.

Over time, you can raise the DE cap to get more singularities/reset. (1 at 1e6, 20 at 1e7, etc). And as you progress through the ‘singularity milestones’ you can grab more bonuses to things like DM/DE, singularities on reset, and even automation for singularities, annihilation, DM-autobuyers, etc.

Certain milestones give scaling boosts based on singularities, and the cap can eventually be raised forever, so we don’t need infinite milestones, and they can go further than eternity milestones.

The idea is that singularities are never spent - we have too many currencies that end up being spent, and not enough ‘stats’ that just accumulate over time.

For reference, the automation acts like pre-break, in that certain milestones ‘upgrade’ the automation to be better. Most Lai’tela automation can be dumped here as well, and anything else that may want automation. (Cough cough tesseracts)

[realrapidjazz]

Prototype Singularity milestones:

Numbers are subject to change.

Starts at X singularities, repeats at Yx singularities, ends at Z repetitions (0 is never) - X:Y:Z.

Raising DE cap is 10x DE cap, but 20x Singularities on reset. Can be repeated.

Infinite:

1:5:0 - Gain an additional repetition of the upgrade set [or, increase scaling of DE upgrade set] 2:10:0 - 1.4x DE 3:30:0 - 1.4x DM 4:50:0 - 1.2x Anomalies 500:1000:0 - 2x Singularities

Limited:

8:8:8 Auto singularity autobuyer time reduction [20, 15, 10, 5, 3, 2, 1, 0] 12:40:4 - DE generation chance increase 50:10:6 - DE Upgrade [1-6] autobuyers [???] 250:10:6 - Anomaly Upgrade [1-6] autobuyers [???] 30:100 :4 - DM [1-4] autobuyers

Unique:

10: Extra DE based on singularities (x^0.1) 100: Unlock DE cap raising 1000: Extra DM based on singularities (x^0.05) 10000: Tesseracts boost DE gain (1.5^x) 100000: Auto-annihilation 1e6: Extra DM based on DE (x^0.1) 1e7: Automatically raise DE cap if time for a singularity is under a user-set threshold (default is 1 second) 1e8: Extra Singularities based on Singularities (x^0.1) 1e9: Tesseract autobuyer 1e10: Extra Singularities based on DM (x^0.05)

EDIT: Some further discussion has indicated that the upgrades should be one time only and with scaling benefits based on singularities instead, and that anomaly upgrades don't exist as a currency and it's kinda messy, but whatever. I'll mark the upgrades that could change with [???], but not much else - it's more semantics, and replacing upgrade autobuyers with unknown upgrades.

[cyip92]

I'm going to close this one, as it's mostly a combination of obsolete and/or actually implemented ideas now.