Determine how the existing card pool is affected by gaining/summoning/discovering

[ethansaxenian]

We need to know if hero powers that gain/discover cards remove minions from the existing tavern deck or create new copies.

Full list of heros that this may apply to: Alextrasza, Arch-Villain Rafaam, Captain Eudora, Fungalmancer Flurgl, Galakrond, Malygos, Patches the Pirate, Ysera

If minions are pulled from the existing pool, we need to know if the chance of getting any one card is proportional to the number left in the pool (so lower tier minions would usually be more common).

We also need to know if minions from the removed tribe can be gained (especially relevant to Alextrasza, Patches the Pirate, and Fungalmancer Flurgl, and Ysera).

Somewhat related, does selling a golden minion from Reno Jackson's hero power add two extra copies to the pool?

There are also currently three minions that may add minions to the pool: Primalfin Lookout, Murozond, and Nat Pagle, so we need to know if this is the case, and if not, if the chances of getting a particular card are proportional to the number in the pool.

Additionally, we need to know if minions that summon during combat (Piloted Shredder, Sneed's old Shredder, Ghastcoiler, The Tide Razor) can summon minions from the removed tribe that game, and if the chance of summoning a particular minion is proportional to the amount left in the pool.

[jazzcs]

For heroes, IIRC, only Rafaam ignores the pool (note his hero power says "copy"). In general, text that doesn't say "copy" should probably be from the pool.

Heroes that are particular to tribes will also be banned when the tribe is banned.

I'm not sure about Murozond, but I think Primalfin and Nat Pagle come from pool.

Good question about Reno. My guess is that it would be treated like any other golden, so yes.

For summons, I believe it is not relative to the pool, but the banned minions can't appear.

Consider these all guesses, but that's where I'd start if testing.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 4:57 PM Ethan Saxenian notifications@github.com wrote:

We need to know if hero powers that gain/discover cards remove minions from the existing tavern deck or create new copies.

Full list of heros that this may apply to: Alextrasza, Arch-Villain Rafaam, Captain Eudora, Fungalmancer Flurgl, Galakrond, Malygos, Patches the Pirate, Ysera

If minions are pulled from the existing pool, we need to know if the chance of getting any one card is proportional to the number left in the pool (so lower tier minions would usually be more common).

We also need to know if minions from the removed tribe can be gained (especially relevant to Alextrasza, Patches the Pirate, and Fungalmancer Flurgl, and Ysera).

Somewhat related, does selling a golden minion from Reno Jackson's hero power add two extra copies to the pool?

There are also currently three minions that may add minions to the pool: Primalfin Lookout, Murozond, and Nat Pagle, so we need to know if this is the case, and if not, if the chances of getting a particular card are proportional to the number in the pool.

Additionally, we need to know if minions that summon during combat (Piloted Shredder, Sneed's old Shredder, Ghastcoiler, The Tide Razor) can summon minions from the removed tribe that game, and if the chance of summoning a particular minion is proportional to the amount left in the pool.

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[ethansaxenian]

Good to know that heroes pull from the pool. Do you know if the gains are proportional to the pool as well? Do Nat Pagle and Primalfin act the same way?

Also, what would happen if there are no dragons left in the pool for Ysera (is this even possible)?

[jazzcs]

I know that discovers are not proportional to the pool (instead per available card). Beyond that, I'm not sure. I'd guess all random works that way (like Patches random, Eudora, etc.)

You can surely buy out enough dragons to exhaust the pool if Ysera stays at level 1. This would be fun to test in a private lobby.

Great questions! I appreciate the attention to detail!

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 6:01 PM Ethan Saxenian notifications@github.com wrote:

Good to know that heroes pull from the pool. Do you know if the gains are proportional to the pool as well? Do Nat Pagle and Primalfin act the same way?

Also, what would happen if there are no dragons left in the pool for Ysera (is this even possible)?

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[jeremysalwen]

If we are running experiments, we should add a new documentation (under the doc/) directory. I am thinking we should have one page where we list all the cards, and what we are assuming/know about their behavior. Then we can have additional pages where we discuss a specific topic (e.g. card pool effects), where we could again list the cards that are affected, but grouped by how they behave.

[jeremysalwen]

small note: Our simulator was crashing with primalfin lookout. Since it draws six murlocs into the discover pool, it was relatively common to not have 6 unique murlocs to draw. This may suggest that it's sampled another way, although it's possible that sampling only 3 at a time could fix this issue?

[ethansaxenian]

It probably works 3 at a time. Is there any way to trigger the discover action from inside the Primalfin's battlecry?

My guess is that discovers will pull from the pool until there are < 3 unique cards left, and then add additional copies. I wonder if these additional copies will be added to the pool if they aren't selected.

[jeremysalwen]

TessGreymane is another example. I am guessing that it creates a new card instead of removing it from the deck, because it is easy for the deck to be out of a specific card. Our simulator was crashing because of this, so I changed our implementation.