Test Väderstad DLC

[JakobTischler]

Shop specs:

Rapid 300C German In German the specs text isn't too long, but it could be in other languages. Please check the English and French versions. If they are too long, I would suggest removing the "weight" line, as the fillTypes are more important.

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Rapid A600S German In German the specs text isn't too long, but it could be in other languages. Please check the English and French versions. If they are too long, I would suggest removing the "weight" line, as the fillTypes are more important.

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Rapid Tempo F8 German In German the specs text isn't too long, but it could be in other languages. Please check the English and French versions. If they are too long, I would suggest removing the "weight" line, as the fillTypes are more important.

[Grisu118]

In the readme the TopDown 500 marked as finished, so I try to test it. I have here a video for you:

http://youtu.be/IbeTOCRb_us

It only happens on street's and other objects. On the terrain all is ok. But there the Magnum can only drive 23km/h with this attached, seems to slow for me.

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The both seeders Rapid 600 / 300: For me the tires are to deep into the ground, possible to change?

[Dhalj]

Tried to improve the problem you posted in the movie, I think the spring settings have changed again, becasue I am sure that this did not happen when I converted it, but it is possible that it is changed during the last Giants DLC update.

someone at Giants made a terrible collision box on the wheel section, so I cannot correct the issue when you drive on a sidewalk (see image the box hits the sidewalk)

also updated the seeders

Please retest

[quadural]

Giants have no testing team. A simple press on the F5 key would show many many problems like that on all the vehicles. It is a shame and I hope they pay someone for FS2015 to check that every vehicle is "ok". The caseIH corn header collision box is not great too (this is the same for one of the magnum and also the tracked 9230 combine... No "quality check" at all, even by the beta testers (except if the problem has been mentioned and not fixed during beta-testing, but I higly doubt that since this is really easy to fix a collision box for them. Just a matter of minutes)

[Grisu118]

ok, will retest tomorrow, when it is not to hot for it.

[quadural]

ok, the topDown is nearly finished on my side. (only need the ground reference node) Regarding the carrier => where can I find the function to display the "scenegraph" from the i3d ? I want to check if we can add "virtual wheels" or not.

[JakobTischler]

only need the ground reference node

I added that yesterday: https://github.com/JakobTischler/MoreRealisticDLCs/commit/005627d55e123b580d7ab1cad721d2575395252a

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where can I find the function to display the "scenegraph" from the i3d ?

printScenegraph(self.components[1].node)

[quadural]

Thanks Jakob. Everyone => Topdown and Carrier updated. Please give a try with the new settings.

[Grisu118]

TopDown and Rapid 300/600 seems ok for me

[quadural]

I am still working on the seeders. so, don't put too much time on them until I have finished breaking them down ;)

[Dhalj]

Carrier 820 indeed works much better on uneven terrain now.

The Rapid 300 seeder has the rear wheels in the air:

[quadural]

This is true. And it seems this is "normal" in Giants mind => the rear line of wheels if raised compared to the front one. And so, if we want the rear line to touch the ground, we need to "sink" the front line. Of course, you can only see that with a "no collision cam" and when you are on road. In field, the "ground texture" is raised by about 4-5 centimeters compared to the "physics" ground.

I will lower the wheels by 1 centimeter then (I can't really do more, because it already looks weird in field)

[quadural]

oops... we forgot something... The 300 seeder is not an "air seeder". This is a "mechanic" one. No air turbine, no power harrow = no PTO/hydraulic power consumption.

[quadural]

Rapid 600S => it seems there is no graintank extension on the game model http://www.vaderstad.com/ImageVaultFiles/id_503/cf_5/st_edited/93UjvuapfUK-KLu5waOV.jpg That means 3300L instead of 4050L

[Dhalj]

You can change the rear line of wheels seperately by playing with the radius / and the deltaY value, I also did that on the 600 seeder. the 600 seeder does have the weels on the same height

There is indeed no extension on the 600S, but Giants used the capacity of the extension in the seeder.

I also changed the capacity of the Tempo F8, Giants included the fertilizer tank in the seed fill level

[Grisu118]

So when I understand right, Tempo F8 is using someting similar to urfSeeder, so why we build in this here? Sorry only in German, Version 3 is not hosted on fs-uk. (version 2 on fs-uk: http://fs-uk.com/mods/view/31834) http://www.modhoster.de/mods/unterfussdungung-fur-samaschinen

Should be easy to build in, only 5 xml entries. No changes at i3d.

[quadural]

@Dhalj : no we can't. I am talking of the 2 rear lines of wheels. They are not independant. I lowered it by 1 centimeter : just try it again.

@Grisu118 : urf seeder can't be used in Farming Simulator realistically because we can't "measure" fertilizer => this is a "flag" (ON/OFF). Either the field is fertilized or not. And so, we have to deliver the "full" amount of fertilizer in a single pass. With liquid fertilizer, I set it to 500L/Ha With solid fertilizer ,I set it to 600L/Ha

This is not really possible to deliver 600L/Ha of fertilizer with the Tempo or the Amazon EDX or even the condor. (600L = about 780Kgs !) In our case, even if the Vaderstad was able to deliver this amount of fertilizer, it would be at lower speed, and you would have to refill the fertilizer tank every 2.8Ha

Another "bad" point is : why ploughing, cultivating or fertilising if a seeder can do all these job by itself ? Allowing this is plain cheating for this game.

And another thing is : do the URF script take into account the additionnal fertilizer weight ? (not negligible in our case)

So, all in all, I am not really pro this function. (anyway, IRL you would never applied all the fertilizer amount at the seeding stage, this is a nonsense)

[Grisu118]

The version 3 only supports partial or no fertilisation. So when you will have full return, you need additional fertilisation. And with the SprayScan.zip the usage of the additional fertilisation is redueced. Edit: You say in LS this is only a flag, I think the most player's don't know that (me too), And when Player plays realistic, he fertilize twice.

About the weight I don't know, but I found nothing looks like weight in the script.

[quadural]

In fact, this is just a "color". When the harvester header "cut" the fruit, it cuts the "fertilizer too". (remove the "painting") => http://www.ls-mods.de/scriptDocumentation.php?lua_file=vehicles/specializations/CutterAreaEvent

the "worst" part is : even if you partially fertilized, with a decent header width, there is very high chance the "spraySum" returned by the "Utils.cutFruitArea" would be >0 (99% chance ?) And so, even by partially fertilizing, you get the same yield as fully fertilising. Even if most players don't know that, it sounds like an "easter egg" to me ;)

If I were a realistic player, knowing nothing about modding or the game engine, first thing I would do =

• harvest one field without fertilizer
• harvest the same field with partial fertilizer
• harvest the same field again with full fertilizer

If the result is the same in the 2 later cases, I would not care fully fertilising if I can afford a seeder that "partially" fertilize at sowing time. This is different when playing in mp with friends of course, because you are not playing for money, but for fun with them. (and so, you can try reproduce what you do/see IRL).

When playing SP, it remains a game for me = I want to make money the faster possible to buy better and better equipment (like any game where the money is the key to "progress")

PS : this is MY though, not THE right though. Everybody has its own vision of the "gaming experience". And so, other can give their though too on this matter. I won't feel hurt if we decide to add it eventually.

[quadural]

Tempo F8 updated

[Dhalj]

@ Dural, tested with different settings:

I lowered them another 15mm

or is there somewhere else where it will look bad, that I do not see?

[quadural]

my bad here : I was pretty sure I had set a "1.0" susptravel to check if the wheels were "bound" to the wheelshape or not. My brain is surely fried. I will change it ASAP. Thanks for the feedback, I will upload the new settings then.

[Grisu118]

@JakobTischler @Satissis @Dhalj What are youre meaning about urfseeder? See posts above for details

[Dhalj]

If i read all the above posts, then we have the following cases:

1) Partial seeding will not fertilize at all, so it is only for looks and seeding will be more expensive.

2) Partial seeding will be enough to flag the header width as fully fertilized and will gain max yield from a field.

Picture of partial seeding (source: modhoster):

if 1 is the case, then we can add it, but it will not give any benefit, only makes seeding more expensive. so we would have to lower the fertilizer output so you do not have to pay full fertilization output

if 2 is the case, I think it is better to not add it. because then it feels like cheating the game

But I need to test this to see how it works and what it does to the yield. (which I will do this evening)

[JakobTischler]

I'm a bit torn on this. For one thing, I like the spec, as it somewhat adds to realism by giving the seeders the functionality they have in real life. On the other hand, I also agree with dural in that it might make things a little too easy as there's no degree of fertilization in the game. I know that URF has a "partial" setting, and that might be the way to go, as it would mean that the user would have to fertilize the field again anyway. But if dural is right and that partial fertilization is already enough to give the combine headers a fully fertilized yield, that might be considered cheating...

Edit: another thing is that I've had some problems with the sprayScan.lua script (which is part of the URF) in the past. Causing log errors, even crashing the game.

[Grisu118]

SprayScan is an own zip file, so it in choice of the user if he will use this. And you are right, when a mod has a own sprayer Spec, then it could or will make problems.

URF V3 has only the partial setting, full spray is not more possible.

[JakobTischler]

So I tested how easy it would be to add URF to the seeders - and in fact it was very easy.

Haven't tested any crop outcome yet, though.

[JakobTischler]

While testing the URF stuff, I noticed something with the Tempo: when active and lowered, the main wheels don't turn (which may be intended, not really sure about that). But due to the fact that they also are way deep in the ground, it does look very buggy.

[quadural]

I can't reproduce this problem on my side. Is it map specific (field specific I mean) ? Does it only occur when the seeder is active ? Really strange since there are a lot of room before the collision box touch the ground.

Driving the tractor by yourself ? ai driver ? cp driver ?

[JakobTischler]

I could reproduce it on the default map, ai helper. But, I think it may be an optical illusion (the wheel spinning backwards effect), as it only happens at a certain speed. So I think it actually turns, it just doesn't look that way. But I still think the main wheels are too far in the ground when the seeder is lowered.

[quadural]

"But I still think the main wheels are too far in the ground when the seeder is lowered."

this is "normal" (expected ?)

1. when a wheelshape drives on a field, it "sinks" by something like 5cms (nothing to do with "mr" => all the field textures are approximately 5cms above the rigid surface of the fields)
2. if you know how does a wheelshape work (something like a "raycast"), you can understand what is the problem when the seeder is lowered by pressing F5 and F4 => look at the "direction" of the wheelshape in lowered position and in raised position. Again, this has nothing with "mr", this is a "nvidia physx limitation" that can be "easily" skirted by using a translation only animation instead of a rotation, so that the wheelshape remains "perpendicular" to the ground => if I remember well, this is what I had to do to "fix" the Amazon Cayena)

This is why I tried to "raised" as much as possible the wheels (on road) for all the Vaderstad tools => point 2 is only a problem for the Tempo in our case. And so, when we add the 5cms field tecture and the "wheelshape" wrong direction, we "lose" more than 10cms here.

[JakobTischler]

when a wheelshape drives on a field, it "sinks" by something like 5cms

I could live with that, but - and that is only my personal taste - to me it looks like more than 5cm. If everyone else is okay with this, though, or if there's nothing more we can do about it, I'll shut up.

[quadural]

Well, it seems I was not really clear in my previous post : This is not a IRL fact, this is a FS13 "feature". Then, do you understand what I mean with the wheelshape direction on the Tempo ? There is a change in direction of the wheelshape between the raised and lowered position. And so, we lost some extra centimeters there too.

PS: we all agree on the fact the wheels are too "sunk" (for some equipment, this is not a problem, in the case of the Tempro, this is really "too much". Unfortunately, we can't increase the wheeshape radius once created)

[Dhalj]

URF seeding test results with Case IH 9230 combine with Case IH cornheader

Tests are done at Field 16 on the MR hagensted map

Test 1: no fertilization:

Test 2: partial fertilization:

Test 3: Full fertilization:

RESULTS: No Fertilization: 7386L Partial fertilization: 9823L Full fertilization: 9878L

So I think we should not add the URF script to the Vaderstad Temp F8 seeder, because partial fertilization is indeed recognized as full fertilization, which will make it too easy.

edit: my dropbox folder with all the testing images, if people want to see more https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1biwm7s46mqeuki/AAC-rdBNf1R5AvsUhjF1y0rDa

[Dhalj]

Tested all the Vaderstad equipment, they all work good.

I have used the Case Puma 160 for seeding with the Rapid 300 and the Rapid 600, and if I compare how the tractor pull's those 2 seeders, i think that it pulls the Rapid 600 seeder a bit too easily, also regarding the fact that the min hp requirement for this seeder is 175hp, and the puma is 160 hp, I still pull it with approx 12 km/h. and I think the hp requirement for these seeders are more for the pulling power then the lift capacity of the 3pt linkage

but if you think that these settings are correct it is also fine by me, the equipment works very good. and then we also can close this issue?

[quadural]

puma 160 = 176Hp max with the "boost" activated (PTO or Hydraulic tool like the air turbine of the rapid)

case1 = puma + rapid 300 = 15.060 kgs (fully loaded with wheat seeds), 19km/h on a flat field case2 = puma + rapid 600 = 18.314 kgs (fully loaded with wheat seeds), 12km/h on a flat field

so, in case2, the moving mass is only 21% heavier but the speed is about 63% of case1 (losses of speed = 37%) We also have to consider the rapid 300 = disc + disc + tine + disc + disc + disc + tyre Whereas the rapid 600 = disc + disc + tine + disc + disc + tyre

Then, the "draft force" is not proportionnal with speed. The greater the speed the greater the "draft force" increase.

So, it seems ok to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TtQRyZxglQ

[Dhalj]

Thanks for the clarification, I did not check the hp of the Puma in the xml file, and also did not take into account that the 300C has one more set of discs.

I will close this issue, to clean out the issues list. we can always reopen it if someone finds something in the vaderstad DLC